2009/05/13 Berlin
[ Previous ]   [ Next ]

Friends and food

Tenderness

Last night over dinner with friends we spoke about stalkers.
A friend asked me: “Do you have a stalker?” “No,” I answered. “To the best of my knowledge I don’t have a stalker.” Then another friend said: “Your mother is your stalker isn’t she?” And then the first friend said: “Your own mother can never become your stalker. That’s not stalking, that’s tenderness, love and care.”

But I’m not so sure. I would like to say: “My mother is my stalker.”


[ Add comment ]
42 comments Last_comment
Maybe she is afraid that everything will go wrong if she doesn't stalk you?
said Lila L. 13/05/2009 14:41 • x
'Your mother can never become your stalker.That's not stalking, that's tenderness, love and care.' I agree. It is tenderness, love and care. But it is the tenderness, love and care that she herself missed en misses untill the day she dies.
said flip willemsen 13/05/2009 14:42 • x
I mean I have a son of 13 months and I can understand it must be weird not to know what your child is doing once he has grown up. I think you can become addicted to this 'stalking'.
said Lila L. 13/05/2009 14:44 • x
I mean: She herself shall miss the tenderness, love and care untill the day she dies.
said flip willemsen 13/05/2009 14:47 • x
Mother
Sorry, I cannot explain it. I mean to say that a stalking mother is very lonely deep inside and she must feel an emptiness. May be her parents died when she was a child . An unnatural cruel divorce. She never get over it. That I can understand. I pitty her as well as her object.
said flip willemsen 13/05/2009 15:13 • x
Arnon
I can change my attitude towards you from tender, loving care to the less tenderly variants if you wish. Then you will able to say :"Yes , I have a stalker, her name is Mieke."
said Mieke Dutoit 13/05/2009 15:22 • x
-is there any connection between the text and the pictures?
-how stupid to call a mother a stalker! you men don't know what motherhood is...
said trixi smith 13/05/2009 15:57 • x
Trixi
The picture portrays Jesus as a stalker.
said Arnon Grunberg 13/05/2009 16:05 • x
I have always wanted to stalk people, but my mind holds me back from doing that.

it reminded me-how about our Prague date, Arnon?
said ANDREA jarosova 13/05/2009 16:22 • x
Stalking & tenderness, love and care
"Tenderness, love and care". Probably number one on the list of favourite excuses used by stalkers to rationalise their behaviour.
said Reinout Wibier 13/05/2009 17:05 • x
Andrea
What about our date?
Come to my event at the book fair and we can discuss the details. If you plan to make the details public forget about drinking wine or coffee with me. I have problems enough already.
said Arnon Grunberg 13/05/2009 17:13 • x
@ Reinout
In (Dutch) cases I got protection orders for clients against stalkers I’ve never seen ‘ tender loving care’ showing up as an excuse for the behavior. It’s rather being shut down from those (and in a lot of cases: drugabuse).

@ Flip
Is (or was) your momma lonely?
said jeanette p. 13/05/2009 17:45 • x
@Jeanette,

Yes I think so. Her twin sister died bij birth. Only that seems to me very weird. As if you are not complete bij birth. And her parents died when she was 12. I can say: she was my stalker. Although.... I am glad that I have no children of my own. Probably I made the same fault. So hard to let them go. I think.
said flip willemsen 13/05/2009 19:00 • x
A tip: DH Lawrence tells in 'Sons and dauhgters' about a mother and her sons. The mother cannot live without her sons. They are the objects of her love. Very tragic story.
said flip willemsen 13/05/2009 19:10 • x
arnon
yes, sir.
said ANDREA jarosova 13/05/2009 19:37 • x
@Filip
Do not worry, you explain well.

(Are you familiar with Arnon’s mother ‘s background? If not, you may start reading about her.)
said Bernard f 13/05/2009 19:41 • x
@Filip
Sorry me too, I meant @Flip willemsen...
said Bernard f 13/05/2009 19:42 • x
@Bernard
No, I am not familiar with Arnon's mother's background. I read his first book and I read Tirza( I loved it) and at the moment I am reading Our Uncle. I will read them all. A long way to go. I am looking forward to read them all.
said flip willemsen 13/05/2009 20:44 • x
flip
flip, der grashuepfer aus der "biene maja"..., ich war/bin fan!
tragische geschichte mit deiner mutter, flip.
bist du sicher, dass du keine kinder moechtest?
said trixi smith 13/05/2009 20:51 • x
Arnon
Don't feel left out because you don't have a stalker. It's probably because of your lifestyle. Who would go through the trouble of stalking someone that is in a different country every week?
said dries van cann 13/05/2009 21:37 • x
Arnon
Don't feel left out because you don't have a stalker. It's probably because of your lifestyle. Who would go through the trouble of stalking someone that is in a different country every week?
said dries van cann 13/05/2009 21:37 • x
Arnon
Don't feel left out because you don't have a stalker. It's probably because of your lifestyle. Who would go through the trouble of stalking someone that is in a different country every week?
said dries van cann 13/05/2009 21:38 • x
@Trixi, I never wanted children and I do'nt miss them. I am too old now to become a mother.( I am a woman) But after a lifetime I am able to let the person that I love to be himself.
I am also able now to stay an independent person myself while I love another.
said flip willemsen 13/05/2009 21:53 • x
Talking about mothers, Arnon, mine is worried that you spend so much money on fleeting futilities. She strongly advises you to invest in a property and start a proper life.
Maybe Sander can help you out on this.
said Mieke Dutoit 14/05/2009 00:07 • x
@ Flip
Thanks for opening up. I was curious where your comment was based upon. It's clear your experience was one source.

Only if you like to answer: as a child or a grown-up did you ever feel like you couldn't compensate for her loneliness?
said jeanette p. 14/05/2009 01:54 • x
Arnon
Sometimes I think if your mother were not your stalker you wouldn't be such a good writer. But I am also aware that not every mother that is a stalker creates a child that performs so well. Plus, not every mother that stalks might stalk as well as your mother.
So, it's not a rule but I see a causation.
said Coen van Dam 14/05/2009 03:31 • x
@Flip willemsen
Indeed, your words rang a bell (my mother’s mother died at childbirth and her father when she was 15 – and I never wanted children neither)
Arnon’s parents have their own particular background.
Welcome!
said Bernard f 14/05/2009 09:01 • x
Mieke
What do you mean? That my life is boring?
said Sander Voerman 14/05/2009 10:40 • x
Sander
Oh no, I realised , after rereading it that it sounded a bit like that, but that wasn't intended. No, I think Arnon is a very lucky man to have you near him.
said Mieke Dutoit 14/05/2009 11:10 • x
Mieke
I'll take it as a compliment then, but I have to disappoint you. Any resemblance of structure and planning in my life is an illusion. I don't even know in what country I'll be living in three months from now.
said Sander Voerman 14/05/2009 14:30 • x
As a mother of 2 grown up sons and dito daughter, I would say, when your children grow up, an elastic umbilical cord is extremely handy. Sometimes you wish they wouldn't bounce back quite so often. Other times you miss them dreadfully. Letting go is difficult, bur very necessary, for all.
said L..M de W. 14/05/2009 15:11 • x
@ Flip
Children do not leave you suddenly. Letting go goes slowly. You learn it while they grow up. Learning to sit, to walk, to read, ... are all steps toward an independent existence.
said Lila L. 14/05/2009 16:06 • x
we have quite some mums here... great! isn't it the biggest and most exciting adventure of life -to raise a child. my baby is 4 months now, so there's a lot more to experience before i have to let it go...
i'm sure i'll be a little "stalker", but i hope in a pleasant way.
is to stalk always used in a negative sense or can it also be used as "to take care of" or something?
said trixi smith 14/05/2009 16:29 • x
@Trixi
You mean something like ‘to guard someone’ as described in ‘Gstaad 95-98’, another fine novel by Marek van der Jagt?
said Bernard f 14/05/2009 17:06 • x
I start acting like a stalker, I am afraid.
(Jesus, the stalker, my goodness…)
said Bernard f 14/05/2009 17:08 • x
My mother seems to be very fine with me calling her once a week for half an hour and seeing me twice or thrice a year. That might be because of my brother who lives in the same little town as my parents with my little niece and his girlfriend. Perhaps I should hire a stalker.
said Juliane B. 15/05/2009 14:21 • x
@jeannette, 01:54
It's not that I wo'nt tell you that, or that I could not, but I do'nt think that this site , or internet is the right place.

@Bernard : Thanks
said flip willemsen 16/05/2009 01:05 • x
@ Flip
sure, you're right. It is an intresting question though.
One of my friends' father hanged himself for being in an almost simular situation. She was 15 then, and decided never to have children herself.
said jeanette p. 16/05/2009 13:44 • x
@ Jeanette,

Thank you. Dreadful. story.
I can say this: when I was 12 and went to school my mother waved at me every morning. And every day I left the house I had the feeling that I abandoned her. Left her. And I hated myself by doing that.
said flip willemsen 17/05/2009 13:52 • x
correction: I hated myself FOR doing that
said flip willemsen 17/05/2009 19:57 • x
@ Flip
My, did you ever tell her?

I guess there are a lot of lonely mothers out there.
My dad travelling far a lot when I was young and him sending letters to my mom with no shred of romance in them, made me feel her loneliness. Me and my sister could make her happy then by curling her hair in the most strange ways, using a lot of hairspray, and giving her too much make-up.
said jeanette p. 17/05/2009 22:30 • x
Jeanettte,

Very sad, your mother and of course you and your sister. But about the hair and the make-up: what a beautiful thing to do. It sounds like a very good story, though I realize that it wasn't .
About loniness: I think everybody is lonely, but those who keep trying to fill the feeling of emptiness are most lonely
said flip willemsen 18/05/2009 00:47 • x
[ Add comment ]