2009/05/16 Prague
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Talk

Love

Over dinner with the Dutch ambassador and his charming wife a diplomat asked me: “Have you ever been to Theresienstadt?” “No,” I answered. “I have been to Auschwitz, but I never made it to Theresienstadt.” We spoke about why Theresienstadt was different from all other camps. I didn’t mention the fact that my mother spent some time in Theresienstadt. I felt it was inappropriate.
The dinner party ended in the garden.
I thought of Carver’s collection “What We Talk About When We Talk About Love”.
Actually I thought: What we talk about when we talk about the holocaust.


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24 comments Last_comment
Years ago I went to Theresienstadt. Among the visitors was a boy, mid twenty, may be younger, who was crying. He cried his heart out. He could not walk and talk anymore, paralysed with sorrow. His girlfriend was with him. He moved me deeply. I will never forget him.
said flip willemsen 16/05/2009 01:36 • x
I wonder what I talk about when I talk about myself.
said Dens Powells 16/05/2009 02:35 • x
Flip
I am afraid I would have the same reaction visiting a place like that, a complete collapse. That's why I haven't found the courage yet to visit a concentrationcamp. I did visit Israël though(twice). Socializing with the living seemed like a bettter idea to me.
said Mieke Dutoit 16/05/2009 07:33 • x
Mieke

I can imagine.
said flip willemsen 16/05/2009 11:36 • x
Mieke
Do you somehow feel responsible for the actions of your ancestors?
said Sander Voerman 16/05/2009 12:10 • x
Mieke, I believe I was following the wrong track. I presumed that your family were victims of concentration camp. Am I right by thinking that your pain has to do with the opposite? Sorry, if I am wrong. Can you explain ?
said flip willemsen 16/05/2009 13:43 • x
@ Sander
I don't feel responsible, but I find it a horrible truth to live with.
@ Flip
My father was during a period of his life a member of the SS. He wasn't -to my knowledge- involved with the camps ( oostfronters), but still, he did collaborate with that regime, as the rest of my family.
Need I say more?
said Mieke Dutoit 16/05/2009 18:16 • x
In Belgium one can visit the fortress of Breendonck, a sinister place if you ask me. I visited it once.
http://www.breendonk.be/NL/index.html
said Bernard f 16/05/2009 19:40 • x
Some touristical advise for Mieke:
Next time in Israël, pay a visit to the Palestinian Terretories. It is an interesting display of a fully operational concentration camp.

Seperatelly there is also a nice replica of the Berlin Wall.
said Kenneth E 16/05/2009 20:28 (Updated 20:29) • x
Sander
The irony of it all, is that my family and their group consider themselves as victims and (what really furiates me is) that they exploit their victimhood.
said Mieke Dutoit 16/05/2009 20:59 • x
Kenneth E
Sorry, but I think you make a superficial comparison. Not that I'm happy with the circumstances in wich some palestinians live for the moment.
said Mieke Dutoit 16/05/2009 21:01 • x
angola
i had to look theresienstadt up.. in 95ish at aquavit in ny i worked with a louisiana girl whose momma was a corrections officer at angola.. she said once: 'i called my momma to bitch about my life and mom said : " honey i'm so glad you called i had a horrible day one of my boys bit a finger off one of the other officers and we had to chain him to a table in a diaper until the fingeer passes and he was screaming and it was nasty.." and i told momma i guess my life was ok'
said quin withey 16/05/2009 21:41 • x
@Mieke
Thanks. I understand.
But in what way does your family exploit their victimhood?
said flip willemsen 16/05/2009 22:09 • x
Quin
Aquavit? I didn't know you worked there. I haven't been there in ages. I wonder if it still exists.
And yes other people's suffering is often a source of joy and happiness. The only reason why group therapy still exists.
said Arnon Grunberg 17/05/2009 01:35 • x
Flip
I am talking about the group of Flemish Nationalists. They felt victimized by the repression after the war. They cultivated this anger, kept it artificially alive, to put pressure in politics. That's why Vlaams Belang is sometimes called "de partij van de bozen".
said Mieke Dutoit 17/05/2009 10:00 • x
http://www.aquavit.org/flash.html
said Mieke Dutoit 17/05/2009 14:33 • x
Sometimes I wonder if the joy for other people's suffering isn't most often the internal drive of any group.
said Mieke Dutoit 17/05/2009 17:17 • x
@ Bernard f

Did you happen to read Jean Améry about his torture experiences at Breendonk?
said jeanette p. 17/05/2009 18:01 • x
@Jeanette p
Although I have read quite some books about that subject; no, I know nothing about him. Just googled his name. Thanks for mentioning.
said Bernard f 17/05/2009 20:08 • x
@ Bernhard,

you're most welcome.
I have a few digital pages in Dutch I could send you.
Just let me know.
said jeanette p. 17/05/2009 22:04 • x
Bernard
I assume you read German.
Read "Jenseits von Schuld und Sühne".
In my yet to be published collection "The best of the Holocaust" Amèry will definitely be included.
said Arnon Grunberg 18/05/2009 01:59 • x
@Jeanette p
That would be most welcome!

@Arnon
My German is very basic. Maybe I can find the book in Dutch.
Will your collection be published in English and/or Dutch? I would be very interested.
Thanks.
said Bernard f 18/05/2009 08:03 • x
@ Bernhard f.

I sent it to your gmail-address.
said jeanette p. 18/05/2009 09:58 • x
@Jeanette
Mail received. Thanks!
said Bernard f 18/05/2009 13:09 • x
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