Arnon

Do you know when your loyalty to others clashes with you loyalty to yourself?

Neria

Did you have a bad experience with Arnon?
You always seem furious on this site.

Jan Allemagne

Does the question above comes as furious to you? If yes, may I ask why?

I'm never very keen on seeing a hairdresser. All that forced chatting and the "Oh, yes. It's perfect." in the end. They aren't my friends regardless of how friendly they are.

Since I'm going to visit my parents next week (my mother will be 50 years young on tuesday), I've decided to go and see my old hairdresser on that occasion. At least she knows me since I was 12 or so.

Neria

There's a taste of hostility in most of your remarks, that's what's striking to me. The single comments you give don't seem furious to me, but if you count it all up, an image of a furious lady appears in my mind.

Juliane

Do you prefer a silent hairdresser?

Jan Allemagne

I wonder if this observetion is true only to me. Do the rest show no fury?

Since a few years I cut my own hair. Sometimes it's rubbish, somtimes it isn't.
Once every 9 months I visit a regular hairdresser. I hate them like others hate dentists.

Neria

That might be the case, but l'll stay with my vague impression I guess.

Hairdresser

My hairdresser is a good looking funny guy who is at the same time barkeeper, you get a haircut with a coffee or glass of wine, studio brussel plays a bit to loud, it's finaly nice to go to the hairdresser, also the name of his shop is great : Bar-Bier.

I hate doctors
I hate pedicures
I hate manicures
I hate dentists
I hate massages
I hate haircuts
I hate lawyers
I hate cooks
I think I hate the service industry.

long-time listener, first-time caller

Having followed this blog for a few months, I think of Neria as 'borderline', but at least she does a fine job staying in character -- the rest of you might consider putting up more of an effort. In many ways, the cryptic/flip/poignant/etc blog posts are a sideshow. The main attraction is all you nutty commenters, reinventing English for us native speakers. Keep up the good work! And thank you, Mr. Grunberg!

My hairdresser is like a "spinning wheel" : every visit - same questions. Very personal questions. I hate it! Every visit I try to ignore it. I would love to change my haidresser. But I love my hair ice blond. She is the only person who understand.

Arnon

Yes, that would be marvellous. Thus I could listen to the radio and be quite at ease.

Jan Allemagne

Sure. You're into shortcuts. If you weren't you wouldn't have asked the question in the first place.

A. Cote

Thank you for that compliment. It's true that Grunberg worship and lunacy are only one step apart. I worship Elvis, Arnon Grunberg and Ivo Niehe.

From another silent witness.

Not so long ago I went to an Iraki hairdresser in my neghbourhood. I went there because his prices for a haircut are cheap. I asked him to cut only 1 cm. from the bottom.He talked a lot. And asked even more questions. What's your name? Will you be going out tonight? Are you single? I did not want to answer him but I did. I had a funny feeling in my gut when he asked me where my boyfriend is from. I wanted to be silent but I said: "Israel". The hairdresser turned red. He walked nervously from my left to right about three times. He started breathing heavily through his nose and stuck the scissors in my hair and cut of 20 cm on my left side. He then stuck the scissors in my hair agan, scraped my scalp, and cut 5 cm of the right side. I was stumped and he kept going.I could not move for a about 1 minute. Then I got up. I said: "Thank you", gave him 10 euros and walked out the door.Before this day I never understood women who cry tears about a haircut disaster. That day I walked home crying like a toddler who'd just been hard with a fist in the stomach. Anyway, shit happens. Hair grows. Be happy. Scissors in hair is better than scissors in neck.
p.s. I also perceive Neria as a bit angry from time to time.

Pardon my typing mistakes. I meant neighbourhood and hit hard.

A.Cote

I like your point of view about this blog, I'm just a little suspicious concerning amateur psychologists/prophets who can make a medical analysis just like that, 'borderline', you found that on Google?

Mr. Allemagne

FYI I asked Neria several times to stop commenting on this site. But this lady is in such a dire need of my attention that she seems to be unable to refrain from commenting on this site.
Some children tend to develop the same behavior. They cry, they speak relentlessly about poop and piss, they misbehave; in short they are unbearable and all this in the hope that their parents will reward this kind of behavior with attention.
A while ago somebody asked me if I had a stalker. I answered: “No.”
But I could have said: “Neria.”
And what a repugnant stalker she is.

Arnon

All you have to do, and this is not the first time I'm telling you this, is to apologize for slandering my name for no apparent reason. If I have learnt to be repugnant it was from the bests.
Apologize and I'll never place a comment here again.

So Neria might need love and attention. And then I accuse Neria of being furious, while she needs a warm shoulder. Now I see what happened.

Jan Allemagne

Why do you take Arnon's explanation to be the truth? The just and honest thing to do is to go through all the history of this blog and find out who's the violent one. You will find numerous repetitions of the same violent episodes with various participants. The question is what do you seek to know. Do you wish to prove a theory in the shortest time? Are you really new to this blog? Do you wish to show a blind admiration to Mr. Grunberg? Are you sincere?

Jan Allemange

The only thing you wouldn't be able to trace here (unless the blog was manipulated) is the birth of my dislike to Sander. But this is unimportant, you'll find enough identical expressions of his directed at other commentators.
The difference between me and the occasional victim is that I don't erase myself in the face of abusive attacks and demand the apology which I deserve to recieve. This has nothing to do with a need for attention. Whenever I'm either the object for such irrational attacks or a witness to them I react. Arnon is not exlussively picked up, I communicate with anyone whom I find either interesant (or unsusally violent).

Neria

I like your comments. So stay with us, no matter what.

Mieke

Do you hate friends?

Mieke

Thank you :)
Since this is Arnon's blog and he needs it for his ego I have no intention to spend here one single moment after the apology. I would have happily invite you to my blog but it's in Hebrew.

Wondering.

Does the apology have to be sincere?

Neria

Apologies, apologies, thousand and one apologies.
And now make sure you get struck by lightning.

Hille

Yes, othewise what's the point?

Arnon

Is this an Arnon Grunbergian fatwa?

Also, this is not an intimate blog, Arnon. You reveal too much about yourself. Between the two of us you're the real infantile. Do you think that if I'm not with you I cease to exist? How many mothers do you need?!

Lila

I have only one. I try to keep that relationship as exclusive as possible.

Friendship

Indeed, the naked truth is unbearable.

Jan Allemagne

I agree with your observation regarding Neria. Actually, she reminds me of another borderline-case we had here on this site, some time back. Her name was Noa. Unfortunately, she also suffered from artistic aspirations, while lacking the talent to legitimize such aspirations. Let us thank God that Neria has not shown any signs of having misplaced artistic aspirations.

Batta

Is this your habbit to put words in other people's mouths? Whether I agree with Jan's conclusion or not, his comment is not the definition of borderline disorder. Your attempt to pathologize me is pathetic. Does it have to do with your slight embarrassment for hastily including Somalia to the Middle East? We all make mistakes, there's nothing to feel shame about. I must add that I equally thank God that you have not shown any signs of having misplaced artistic aspirations. Let us all pray that you'll refrain from making psychiatric diagnoses in the future.

Neria

Arnon apologied, I just want to know why you don't keep your part of the deal?

Batta

Just curious, but do you think my artistic aspirations are legitimate?

@Jan

Enchanté.

Strasse's partner

See my answer to Hille. You can't obviously consider an apology which includes a very pronounced wish for your death an apology. Will you accept that as an apology?

Jan Allemagne

FYI Aliefka(Noa) has written a novel wich was published by a reputed publishing house. So maybe she is talented.

reputed= reputable

How personal this comments are! Wow! It's a real cliff-hanger...like a novel! Mr. Arnon - primary objective, women with intensive (but not defined and understandable) inner motivation and dozens more "voayers"...impressive. I love this blog.

Neria

"Apologies, apologies, thousand and one apologies".... yes, sure, I would accept this as an apologie, how else would you call it?
It's perfecly acceptable that someone apologies for his actions but still hopes you get hurt, apologizing isn't the same as declaring your eternal love, it's about the past, not about what could come next, in your case apparently a thunderstorm.
Btw, I can't remember that you specified your demand, you asked for an apology, you got it so now go, as you promised.
Have a nice life, but keep it as of know to yourself, byebye.

Strasse's partner

I am not you. We work and rationalize things differently. After the comment you have left about Hanny's site your rudeness fails to impress me. Some people just too quickly turn to be boring and predictable, I'm sorry to observe that you belong to this group. Others' people jokes will never serve the wide enough fig leaf to cover your existance.

Mister (or is it mrses?) Partner. I was wondering, has this person Neria said something to you or against you that would legitimize your asking her to leave? Mister Grunberg has his personal and it would seem legitimate reasons. But do you? Forgive me if I overlooked something, I haven't been here for long. In that short time span I only noticed her attacks on him. Her attacks on others seem only reactionary.

Tabatha

My "attacks" on Mr. Grunberg are reactionary too. The fact that I don't seem to forgive and forget simply because time passes without any apology does not mean there hasn't been an initial irrational assault. For some mysterious reason Mr. Grunberg gets away with such conduct. The amazing side effect is that he is coppied by others. If this blog is an antropological research field the results are pretty shocking. One would say that my shock teaches something about my naïveté, but it's rather the lack of sufficient distance between me and the phenomena I find myself studying. It is one thing to read about horrors of the past, or horrors which happen in a relatively safe distance from you and another to unveil them yourself (unintentionally). I feel lucky for having a ballanced overview about life but had this been the only field from which I had to draw conclusions about human nature it could have been quite depressing.

Tabatha

Strasse's partenr, an indefinable subject for him/herself (s/he's not a person on his/her own accord but is defined by his/her relation to Strasse) perhaps identify him/herself with the "powerful" (more accurately aggressive) Grunberg. This identification is not unique to him/her, you can find numerous expressions of other commentators who speak in Arnon's name. It sounds like an infantile reaction, the closest example which comes to my mind and perhaps I have mentioned it here before is the incident with my 4 years old niece who threw a tantrum after I had corrected her mother's Hebrew. That her mother could make mistakes was a too overwhelming for her. I have experienced a similar episode while studying in Utrecht. In Israel one studies through discussion, you get to read the material and then you discuss it over at class. I had a different interpretation from the professor's, a quite natural and sometimes enriching happening that is inseparable from the process of studying, yet in the break a young woman (perhaps 18) approached me all agitated and I learned from her that a student does not suppose to contradict a professor's teaching. In vain I tried to tell her that more than one reading is possible and that it does not necessarily eliminate the others. She couldn't handle this message and never came to this class again. Could it be that she feared the danger of witnessing the imaginary crumbling of an omnipotent father?
In short, there could be many reasons. I wanted to say that all these reasons do not justify bloodshed because at the same time we all have a considerable grasp of reality, but it slowly seeps to me that perhaps I'm too optimistic.

Woah there now, easy does it girl. Easy. You are a wild horse galloping through this world, snorting and raving in blind fury. Perhaps one day a gentle and patient hand will tame you.

Tabatha

I'm not a horse, I'm a woman. I'm not furious, I'm just. Nobody has to tame me. Check yourself to see if portraying me as an animal is essentailly different from portraying me as a mad woman, it's so 19th century. It would be more respectfull to argue against specific argumentations rather than to dismiss the whole issue by focusing generally on the fact that I dare to answer back.

Here's a strange thought. Neria's reactions remind me of the Book of Job. Are we, the Supreme Blogger & His Nutty Commenters, reenacting the book of Job here?

Interesting analogy.

Neria

You wrote:

Strasse's partenr, an indefinable subject for him/herself (s/he's not a person on his/her own accord but is defined by his/her relation to Strasse)

Show me a person that is not defined by his/her relation to "the other(s)".
From your own writing it is clear that you are no exception.

Show me a subject that is definable.

Jeanette

I didn't argue that I am not defined by my relations to others. I wanted to make a point that some people might identify themselve to such extent with others, to the point that an absence of borders between them might be disturbing. If I'll say: "we want to listen to music" and include you in that speech I might be be doing wrong to you in case you don't like to listen to music.

Jeanette

Regarding Strasse's partner identification with Arnon you can argue that Arnon pronounced the same wish earlier and so both he and Strasse's partner indeed share the same wish. However, Arnon, who is a violent yet a clever man, had read Hille's question and my reply to it and made sure his apology will come out as ridiculous and unacceptable as possible. Had he really wanted me away he'd simply say: "Neria, I apologize for my past insults" and end his message here. I don't know what's going on in Arnon's head; it could be that he is ambivalent. Be sure that Arnon knows exactly how to create an effective moment of suspension of disbelief in his addressee and if he chooses to avoid doing so he has his reasons. I promise to never leave any comment here if Arnon will write the statement above and will not attempt to reverse it.

Marc Olsen

If you believe that Job was a pathetic stalker you should start reading the bible.

Neria

Why don't you invest your intelligence and efforts in delighting others instead of repulsing them? You are making yourself ridiculous, and the blog is not as pleasant to read since your activity on it has increased. Forgive, leave your frustration behind and eventually come back under another nickname without those vicious comments. Otherwise, everyone will end up avoiding you as if you were the swine flu.

Neria & friends

I (woman) personaly don't care if Neria stays or not, I'm just interested in human behaviour and I wanted to know how someone fools herselve just to keep on posting comments.

Calisha

Am I the only one you find repulsive here on this blog? If not, why don't you address this suggestion to everyone who's repulsive?
I am willing to forgive but not out of the blue, an apology must precede a forgiveness.

Strasse's partner

You are not subtle enough to leave the impression that you're truly interested in human behavior, you're driving away the fish.

@Arnon Grunberg

isn't that a false charge of fallacy? An analogy is not an equation.

Neria

I'm intrigued by your reasoning. Let's assume, hypothetically, that Arnon feels he has nothing to apologize for. People can be very strange that way, as I'm sure you know. That would imply that this apology you are trying to extract from him won't be forthcoming, Okay, now my question is this: does your idea of justice require you to spend many hours on this blog in the company of your oppressor waiting for an apology that will never come? Or to put it in military terms: what's your exit strategy? If you don't have one, I suggest you look at the experiences of the US military over the past decades, it may inspire you to go looking for more modest, achievable goals.

Michel

And I am intersted in what brings you and Calisha for example to seek for exit strategies for me.
I have no plan, I'm not a prophet either and the economy of my energies is pretty much my private business, I think. Will it lessen your concern if I'll report that this sort of communication sharpens some of my skills?

Michel

I think that in case Arnon will refuse to apologize I will leave when I'll get bored.

Neria

Calisha's comment seems to offer advice. That was not my aim, notwithstanding the last sentence of my comment. I was just curious as to whether you have an exit strategy or think you need one. Your response is somewhat informative in this respect, thank you. Can you tell me what skill you are sharpening exactly? I don't think 'communication' quite captures your undertaking here.

Miss Neria, I doubt Mister Grunberg is Strasse's Partner (or was it Bappa?) and I doubt he apologized in such a way that he knew you would stay, and therefore indirectly saying you are fulfilling some essential role here. You are intelligent, so much is clear, and I admire your incredible skill in manipulating every (often well meant) reaction here towards a direction that is aimed at making those who meant well feel ignorant.
But in all honesty, through empathy I feel extremely sad when watching your actions on this blog. By demanding an apology, you are in fact making your sense of self worth entirely dependent on the object you're demanding an apology from. I dread thinking of what metaphor Arnon Grunberg stands for in your life. It is evident you have been seriously hurt, probably abused by the people whos sole responsibility by putting you on this earth was to simply love you and guarantee your safety. They will never apologize, this I guarantee you. But they don't need to. Forgiveness comes from within. The apology itself will not release you.

Marc O

Your metaphor was not very apt. That's all.
Whether a metaphor is an analogy... well, we can discuss that another time.

Neria

Subtlety works rarely in a one to one personal relationship, so especialy not on the internet.
The bottom line is very simple, we're just bored with you.
Btw, are you a masochist?

Neria

So you agree with me that both you, Strasse's partner, me, etc. etc. are defined by our relations to others.
In those relations our subjectivity is construed in interaction with others who resemble us in one way or the other but who are also irrevocably different.

You wanted to make a point that some people might identify themselve to such extent with others, to the point that an absence of borders between them might be disturbing.
In general you might be right, but I'm not convinced this is the case at hand.
You see, to Strasse's partner you wrote: "Some people just too quickly turn to be boring and predictable, I'm sorry to observe that you belong to this group. "
It can be argued as easy that Strasse's partner identifies herself with you - without it being disturbing.

(I love music by the way, so you won't be doing me wrong and if so, I would tell you. )

Neria

Your second comment to me I feel is addressed to Arnon, so I see no reason me commenting on this one.

Michel

To tell you the truth, the answer to your question is too intimate and this forum is not the correct place to discuss these matters :) I'm sorry I cannot answer.

Tabatha

Ms. Neria

The danger with your argumentation is the total neglect of aspects in reality. We all have our histories, I quite often rationalize like you when I haven't got enough information to form an appeasing explanation to a problem. However, the possibility of similarities between violent experiences in the past and violent experiences in the presnt are not enough to erase the actual happening of the last.

I felt very well and still feel that you sympathize with me. I was not manipulating your last comment, I offered you to check whether in your attempt to help you might use strategies which perhaps are not very helpful because rather than focusing on the moral aspects of this drama they focus on my psychology. Not that I'm interested in such reasoning but an attempt to provide a minute description of Arnon's psychology is probably missing here. Let me repeat, your guesswork is still a guesswork whether you apply ot on me or on anybody else.

Jeanette

In what ways exactly does Strasse's partner and me resemble each other not in a disturbing matter? That we probably both have wombs? (when I have menstruation pains this fact can turn to be quite disturbing matter). Anyway, Strasse's partner helped us again by closing her last comment with "we're bored with you" and simply erased Mieke on the spot. I find it very disturbing, not only because Mieke wants me to continue placing comments here but because erasing a person is similar to killing her (luckily, most probably that Strasse's partner's comment reavealed more of her own psychology than it had actually hurt Mieke). Be sure that I equally dislike the use of such "we" even if the inclusion involves people whom points of view I do not share.

Strasse's partner

On the one hand you're bored with me and on the other you cannot stop reading me. Is this a new sort of OCD?

Neria

Maybe it's more clear when I write it in this way:

It can be argued as easily that Strasse's partner identifies herself with you(, because of you)r quote: "Some people just too quickly turn to be boring and predictable, I'm sorry to observe that you belong to this group. "

Jeanette

Jeanette dear, the answer is no. You are not clearer when you try to say: "you bore me" through the mouth of another. Keep it in mind for next time. Don't shy from directly expressing your thoughts and feelings (or maybe you should, if the person you fear insulting is very big and intimidating). If this is what you wanted to tell me, that I'm very big and intimidating than feel free to say that. I have no intention to hurt anyone who is less powerful than me, that's not my style. Mirroring someone's behaviour back is not equal to intentionally hurting :)

'then' :)

:)) or maybe you wanted to say that Strasse's partner is boring... You could have also said it directly :) In Hebrew there's a saying: 'a barking dog does not bite' :)

Miss Biala

I didn't say you "are" repulsive, I said you act respulsively. Everyone can act repulsively, but no one is repulsive by nature.

Dear Strasse's Partner,

why don't you speak for your self?

yours,

Eric

Ms. Mienona

I am Ms. Biala. You can also address me as Neria.
I don't even remember what you're talking about. I usually trust my reading comprehension. I'm also human. It could be that I made a mistake and didn't understand you fully. Somehow I still trust that I did. At this stage of the discussion I really miss Dens and his grammar.
Please avoid calling me Miss, or Mrs. In return I'll do my best to read you very carefully to make sure my understanding is as close to your intentions as possible.

Neria

Another try:

You wrote: "Strasse's partenr, an indefinable subject for him/herself (s/he's not a person on his/her own accord but is defined by his/her relation to Strasse) perhaps identify him/herself with the "powerful" (more accurately aggressive) Grunberg. "
I wrote to you that it could be as easily argued that Strasse's partner identifies with you because of your comment. That's all.

If you want to know if I think your comments are boring, just ask me in stead of making guesses. I'll answer.

Jeanette

I don't think so but only Strasse's partner can confirm or refute your assumption.
And Jeanette, did I really leave this impression on you, that I would avoid asking you directly whether you find my comments here boring or not, had I wanted to? If yes then I have a real problem.

Ms. Mienona

I have tons of things to prepare for tomorrow yet I went back to your question and to my reply and I'm a little bit angered because your last reply seems to deliberately waste my time. There's a world of difference between meer prigishness (I hope I'm using the right noun) and funtamentals. Do you want me to rephrase my question more accurately? I was wondering if my comments were the only repulsive comments here or were there also repulsive comments made by others. And if I was not the only one who left repulsive comments why do you discriminate the others. You wisdom should be spread generously.

Michel

The Repugnant Stalker doesn’t need an exit strategy. As soon as I have enough of her masturbating in public I will block her comments.
This lady is the proof that pity can be harmful to those you feel compassion for. I allowed The Repugnant Stalker to linger on this site; it’s obvious that she doesn’t have any other outlets to cry for help and attention. Her behavior has gone from bad to worse; her incoherence is growing, and she is pestering us with her need to leave the verbal equivalent of excrement on this site.
The fact that lightning hasn’t struck her yet is telling. Probably lightning is as disgusted by The Repugnant Stalker as I am.
I will try to bribe lightning into becoming The Repugnant Stalker’s best friend.

Arnon

You don't have to make any apologies for me anymore, not because I give up, technically you do, but because I don't feel the need anymore. The last two days have taught me things I didn't expect to learn.
I don't ask you why do you keep a blog because I'm afraid that if there is a less prosaic part to the answer it must be intimate and this is not an intimate blog.

If lightning struck Ms. Biala, she would insist that it was the Gods assessing her photogeneity.

Oscar

You too, Brutus?

On the other hand one cannot expect neutrality from a man who pimps his wife to Arnon. At least you saved your soul from the Ante-Inferno, you can remind that to the gods. Apropos.

Arnon

Arnon, didn't you say that you don't talk the talk, that you walk the walk? Or was it told about your alter ego, the godson. From now on if you want me dead and you don't want your disciples to be martyrs don't encourage them to do your job. I don't waste ammunition, I shoot to kill. I think it's about time to ask your graceful friend, Sander, to block my comments. Tell him he should start from the computer where my last comment (not the current one) was sent.

Yes, so what we're seeing here: after insight comes the final (and usually) fatal confrontontation with the antagonist.
Greek Tragedy - character flaw-- mistake / reversal of fate -- insight / recognition -- final confrontation usually leading to death (NB in fiction).

Missing the Kairos? Once you get into the hands of the gods your fate is always tragic whether you have a character flaw or not.