2009/09/12 Amsterdam
Improvement
Traffic
I arrived thirty minutes late for my first class at Wageningen University. The traffic was congested all the way from Amsterdam to Wageningen. My driver said: “Perhaps I will sit in on your class, or I will go to visit my grandmother who lives nearby in Barneveld.”
One of the topics that came up during my first class was the question if there is a fundamental difference between animal husbandry and human mating strategies.
It’s all about improvement, or the illusion of improvement. Improvement of livestock; improvement of human beings.
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15 comments 
Mr Grunberg
Are these classes open for other people than students and taxi-drivers?Jan Allemagne
In principle these classes are open for all students of Wageningen University, eventually we could have accepted outsiders, but the class has started already and I won't accept new students.FYI this class (and my class at Leiden University) have been announced on this site a while ago.
Thanks for your reply. I've seen the announcement, but since I'm not a student anymore, I expected I won't be able to join the classes anyway.
Improvement
Animal husbandry and human choices for mates may just as well lead to inbreeding, which certainly wouldn't be called 'improvements'.And what exactly constitutes an improvement is highly subjective.
Bert
You seem obsessed with the idea that anything can be deemed subjective.Bert
You seem obsessed with the idea that anything can be deemed subjective.Wageningen: education-centre for the food-industry
Wageningen University is for decades the education-centre for the food-industry in the Netherlands (which is very big for a small country). Nice they are supporting filosofical discussions with writers but its mainly window-dressing.@Oscar Wilde
How did you get that idea?
'You seem to be obsessed with....'
'Anything is subjective....'
Of course that's not the case: the earth isn't flat and pigs don't fly.
But 'improving' animals or people most certainly is quite subjective and quite a stupid notion. (Well, stupid as far as humans are concerned; we improve animals for our own benefit, which we won't call stupid of course).
bert
How did you get that idea?
'You seem to be obsessed with....'
'Anything is subjective....'
Of course that's not the case: the earth isn't flat and pigs don't fly.
But 'improving' animals or people most certainly is quite subjective and quite a stupid notion. (Well, stupid as far as humans are concerned; we improve animals for our own benefit, which we won't call stupid of course).
bert
bert
An animal scientist can explain you that animal husbandry doesn't (necessarily) lead to inbreeding.Arnon & Oscar
'An animal scientist' : you mean some 'biologist' I guess.
Or a veterinary expert?
Of course it doesn't necessarily lead to inbreeding.
I just said it often does.
And what we as humans think of as improvements very often just isn't an improvement: just as we as 'homo sapiens' aren't the very top of evolution.
We are not an 'improvement' on the chimps and gorillas!
That's all I wanted to say.
'An animal scientist' : you mean some 'biologist' I guess.
Or a veterinary expert?
Of course it doesn't necessarily lead to inbreeding.
I just said it often does.
And what we as humans think of as improvements very often just isn't an improvement: just as we as 'homo sapiens' aren't the very top of evolution.
We are not an 'improvement' on the chimps and gorillas!
That's all I wanted to say.
Bert
Noun1.animal scientist - a specialist in the branch of biology dealing with animals.It's very well possible that you are not an improvement on let's say a chimpanzee, but there is no need to advertise this lack of improvement.
Arnon
Read ' (...) may just as well lead to inbreeding' !
So, what's your point?
[and : explain TO you / explain things/ on / etc...]
Anyway, I don't think I'm wrong: 'improving' animals/people/society/the world/the economy (whatever) will always be highly subjective.
Yes, cars, a PC, a TV, etc, physical, pure 'hardware' , can be 'improved'.
(Still: to meet our own needs and desires....!)
But what the hell is an 'improved' animal or human being (apart from what we desire) ?!
Read ' (...) may just as well lead to inbreeding' !
So, what's your point?
[and : explain TO you / explain things/ on / etc...]
Anyway, I don't think I'm wrong: 'improving' animals/people/society/the world/the economy (whatever) will always be highly subjective.
Yes, cars, a PC, a TV, etc, physical, pure 'hardware' , can be 'improved'.
(Still: to meet our own needs and desires....!)
But what the hell is an 'improved' animal or human being (apart from what we desire) ?!
Dear Arnon,
I'm not advertising anything.
But I'm certainly happy to think you feel yourself better than a chimp.
I agree. You can write, a chimp can't.
I'm not advertising anything.
But I'm certainly happy to think you feel yourself better than a chimp.
I agree. You can write, a chimp can't.
Bert
You made your point: you are not an improvement on animals who are unable to read books. You can rest your case.Dear Arnon,
I wasn't talking about myself, but about you!
But, never mind, I do rest my case.
I wasn't talking about myself, but about you!
But, never mind, I do rest my case.
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