leicht groessenwahnsinnig herr grunberg...

Communion

Why offer visitors wine and bonbons when you could just ask them to give you a blowjob?

bobnbons

I'm sure there is a chocolatier who wouldn't mind selling bonbons in the shape of Arnon's curly head. I'd certainly buy some! Mmmm...

Arnon

That's not only worth a try drinkin'it, it's also a perfect gift for birthdays or weddings or a date with our "berliner" exgirlfriend ;)
Keep us informed if we can order this wine please.

Arnon

I promise that if the wine appears I will write a tune entitled "Arnon Grunberg's Wine".

Flesh, blood & wine

-- "... I went TO a winery...."
-- "... Arnon GRunberg wine in 2010."

-- "Please, eat my flesh." You're made of chocolate?!

Ok, varying on this Christian ritual of devouring Jesus' body in the form of a wafer:
the sacred / consecrated host, the consecrated wafer, the Eucarist
the sacred Grunberg....

And then he tells us all to stop smoking and drinking!!

flesh & blood

Communion....
Are we playing vampire here?

Coen

What about : The Sisters Of Mercy: 'The Temple Of Love' ?
A great tune!

Communion

In our new missal we incorporate this text/prayer:

Sisters Of Mercy — Temple Of Love lyrics
{Songwriters: Adams, CraigjEldritck .Andrew}

With the fire from the fireworks up above me
With a gun for a lover and a shot for the pain at hand
You run for cover in the temple of love
You run for another but still the same
For the wind will blow my name across this land
In the temple of love you hide together
Believing pain and fear outside
But someone near you rides the weather
And the tears he cried will rain on walls
As wide as lovers' eyes

In the temple of love: shine like thunder
With the sunlight died and night above me
With a gun for a lover and a shot for the pain inside
You run for cover in the temple of love
With the fire from the fireworks up above
You run for cover in the temple of love
And the temple of love will fall before

In the temple of love: cry like rain
In the temple of love: hear my calling
In the temple of love: hear my name
And the devil in black dress watches over
My guardian angel walks away
Life is short and love is always over in the morning
Black wind come carry me far away
With the sunlight died and night above me
With a gun for a lover and a shot for the pain inside
You run for cover in the temple of love
You run for another it's all the same
For the wind will blow and throw your walls aside
With the fire from the fireworks up above

I shine like thunder cry like rain
And the temple of love will fall before
And the tears he cried will rain on walls
When stone is dust and only air remains
The only haven you can trust
And the devil in black dress watches over
My guardian angel walks away
Life is short and love is always over in the morning
Black wind come carry me far away
With the fire from the fireworks up above
With a gun for a lover and a shot for the pain you
You run for cover in the temple of love
I shine like thunder cry like rain
And the temple grows old and strong
But the wind blows longer cold and long
And the temple of love will fall before

In the temple of love you hide together
Believing pain and fear outside
But someone near you rides the weather
And the tears he cried will rain on walls
As wide as lovers eyes
In the temple of love: shine like thunder
In the temple of love: cry like rain
In the temple of love: hear my calling
And the temple of love is falling
Down
====================================

Bert

Thanks, Bert. I misspelled my own name. That's what you get from visiting a winery.

Carlos

I like to exchange goodies

Vampire games and The Sisters of Mercy as soundtrack. Sounds very good. Let's create a cult.

Juliane B.

OK, include me in.
Let's start a religion to outdate all other religions and cults.

Bert

L. Ron Hubbard did that on a bar bet with Robert Heinlein.

It does require a certain cynical willingness to take advantage of people's gullibility and their frantic search for hope and meaning in a rather hopeless and meaningless world.

Carlos Dee

Of course, I'm not THAT serious!
Fucking scientology church of Ron Hubbard!!
Now there was a real con artist!!
Please don't compare my proposal to his scheming and bullshitting ways!!
Our little cult will not comprise more than at the most 33 people!!

Bert

I don't think L Ron was that serious when he began his cult either. Things have a way of getting out of hand.

One of the rules of a successful religion or cult is to promise salvation and happiness but, at the same time, make them impossible to achieve. This is one of the few insights L Ron seems to have had in his life.

Hesper/Carlos

I promise unhappiness.
I will tell my followers: suffering is cool.
As long as they buy my wine.

suffering is cool

that's not a very original premise... I mean - for Jesus suffering was cool (turning the other cheek thing, to say nothing of the wine and bonbons ;))

Now, if you manage to combine unhappiness with bliss - there's you religion - worthy of the age.

There happens to be an excellent South African wine on the market called "Dutoit". Maybe we can have a little contest?
I believe Juliane and Beata would be perfect as high priestess. Maybe we can include a ritual foot washing (yours) in every ceremony, performend by Juliane or Beata.

A good step towards becoming a Jewish Messiah. Remember the story ends with crucifixtion. Or do you also trust in the resurrection?

Mieke

The wine is actually called "Du Toitskloof". It is a winery named after the Du Toitskloof mountain pass.

Are you also of Huguenot stock?

Arnon

Now I come to think of it, there is a popular white wine in South Africa called "Grünberger Stein". It is quite good, but on the sweetish side.

According to google, "Grünberger Freudelese" and "Grünberger Rosenlese" are also available.

Label:
http://www.kwagga.de/mab/wein/etikett/af/gruenberger3r.jpg

Carlos

There is also another one on the market who is just named "Dutoit".

Arnon

Wouldn't it be better to have a croquet named after you?

Rough from the outside, hot and soft from the inside. The stuffing should always be a surprise, varying between a goose ragout and a herring and potato salpicon.

sander/mieke

@ sander
heerlijk!!! hahaha
ik stel me voor ik ga een snackbar binnen, "mag ik een krokett arnon grunberg?"
@ mieke
you may do the foot washing part for me! i prefer to let my feet be washed by arnon!
funny ideas jongens! i like that!

I've changed my mind. I take everything back. I'd rather sit in a cosy living room with my back against a tiled stove next to the wool basket with some tea and a box of Belgian chocolates. You can take the suffering back now, please.

Our new religion/cult

Good suggestions all !
Great, as long as I can drink some excellent (preferably red) wine.
And being unhappy won't certainly matter as long as you can have a good drink... Our 'heaven' will be 'total oblivion'. (!)

Let's recruit our high priestesses of the ceremony.
Juliane & Beata, Mieke Dutoit and M. Hordijk?
@ Sander
Good suggestion: let's have a warm snack, instead of this tasteless little wafer (Du.: 'hostie'): a really delicious, hot croquette: that will be our communion: a 'Grunberg croquette roll'.
('Een broodje kroket Grunberg')
Followed by a good sip of 'Grunberg 'Blood/Wine'.

I don't relish this idea of washing feet, unless someone really wants to have their feet washed by someone of their choice...
[You will then have washed them at home first, won't you?]

Having/getting a massage of course is quite something else...
But then of course these new cult-believers could be having showers together etc etc.....?!

Yeah, let's have a really ORIGINAL, NEW, UPDATED, AUTHENTIC, MODERNIZED, RENOVATED, REJUVENATED, AND ULTIMATE, REALLY, REALLY, PERFECT RELIGION....And Belief System.....
[Max number of members: 33 ! ]

Juliane B.

Please don't opt out!
We (I at least) want you as a high priestess!
Staying at home eating Belgian chocolates?
I can understand that:
It's what I do very often: eating chocolate...
Very good for you....
Eating chocolate and drinking wine/port....
Don't forget to eat a good meal now and then!
But please reconsider....

@ Beata
Good, Arnon can wash your feet instead. A nice gesture of revering the feminine aspect in the cult.
@ Juliane
Wich role would you like to perform?
@ Hesper
I have a different role in mind. Too soon to reveal it yet.

And I want to add a bookburning. Wich book will we sacrifice in the name of Arnon?

Mieke Dutoit

Why in heaven's name would it be too soon to reveal?!
Do we have to wait until Christmas?

Mieke Dutoit

WHich book indeed?
I would suggest any book printed in the millions:
Let's burn one copy of Dan Brown's 'The Da Vinci Code' or 'The Lost Symbol' or 'Angels & Demons': very appropriate in such a ceremony...
While the book is slowly being burned on a little fire we could have some fruitful exchange of ideas and suggestions on the next title...
[" I would like to propose ....., Amen" ]

Carlos Dee

Talking about Robert A. Heinlein...
Have you read his 'Stranger in a Strange Land'? (1961)

-- “Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat.”

We might start some kind of cult based on that book!
=======================================

Bert

Can I remind you that this is a cult about suffering? We should really be very carefull about the choice of the book. The sacrifice needs to hurt.
In the beginning was the word. We sacrifice the word, and out of its ashes a new beginning will occur.

Dominika S

"Now, if you manage to combine unhappiness with bliss - there's you religion - worthy of the age." [- "youR relligion"]

I wholeheartedly agree: my unhappiness/melancholy/depression etc can certainly be combined with feelings of bliss/happiness !

When I'm depressed I start reading, and feel very happy.
When unhappy I might start drinking a few glasses of wine/port/whisky, and get to feel dazed (tipsy), and very happy...
When depressed/down/unhappy, just start walking, cycling, reading, shopping (!), and some bliss is sure to come....
Sorry, this sounds really stupid; but it works for me: take a mag or a book, read and read and read: goodbye cruel world....

http://www.jacquedee63.com/goddbyecruelworld.html :

(Oh, goodbye cruel world, I'm off to join the circus
Gonna be a broken-hearted clown
Paint my face with a good-for-nothin' smile
'cause a mean, fickle woman turned my whole world upside down)
and experience some bliss !

Let's join in this holy unhappy blissful church of ours!
And say / pray "Goodbye cruel world" !
=================================

Mieke

"(...) a cult about suffering?"
Who said it would HAVE to be a cult about suffering?!
All right: AG - Our Lord And Almighty said:
"I promise unhappiness.
I will tell my followers: suffering is cool.
As long as they buy my wine."
[So: if you DON'T buy his wine but some other brand, you might escape all unhappiness and suffering !]

"We should really be very carefull [-carefuL] (...)"
"In the beginning was the word. We sacrifice the word, and out of its ashes a new beginning will occur. "

- "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
(We sacrifice the word.... - You are really a true Christian believer, aren't you?) I for one am not willing to sacrifice ANY WORD !
Certainly not those of our beloved Mr Arnon Grunberg.
[- Noam Chomksy on Language.]
And by the way:
I have always found this equation rather funny:
In the beginning there was a Table, and the Table was with a Chair, and the Table was a Chair."

That's not the kind of religion/cult we are going to start again!
We'll demand some real logic and consistency !

Mozzarella club of the friendly ghosts

I invite you to take a look at the following link.
http://www.arnongrunberg.com/blog/1045-mozzarella?page=2

Bert

I'll write a new tune.

It is amazing how quickly a suggestion of beginning a vampire cult turned into a movement of people longing for book burnings.

Why start a religion anyway? You realise that in the future all religions will be regarded as dangerous or primitive passtimes of those not ready to face the lack of purpose of life.

If it is answers you are looking for, mail them to me and I'll answer.
If it is hope you are looking for; there is none.

Bert Hesper

I started to think about what I do when I get depressed/unhappy/down and came to the conclusion that I just don't get depressed... Pissed off - that's the closest I get to unhapiness. What do you do about that? I guess sport would do actually. Reading not so much. Drinking... Have to try that.

Goodbye cruel world... Maybe 'Bedlam' could be our anthem? :) If not, maybe Carlos could "write the theme tune, sing the theme tune"? :)

Flesh & Blood

@ Coen van Dam
Thanks for the link to this 'Mozarella club of the friendly ghosts'.

- Paul Reps (compiler): Zen Flesh, Zen Bones
[First published by The Charles E. Tuttle Co., Inc., 1957
Published in Pelican Books 1971 (Philosophy)
Includes four books:
101 Zen Stories, 1st publ. 1939 by Rider and Company, London
The Gateless Gate, 1st publ. 1934 by John Murray, Los Angeles
10 Bulls, 1st publ. 1935 by DeVorss and Company, Los Angeles
Centreing, 1st app. Spring 1955 issue Gentry mag., New York]

And - of course - Robert Pirsig:
- Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry into Values (1974)
- Lila: An Inquiry into Morals (1991)
(These, together with AG's books, and a lot more, would be our 'holy books'.)

@ Sander Voerman
Please hold your horses!...
There's really nothing to be amazed about: we're all just jesting and suggesting things.
Please read carefully...
'(...) a movement of people longing for book burnings.' Well, we're not longing for any book burnings, in fact.
Why start a religion? Same thing:
Just playing with the thought of starting one with Arnon Grunberg as our guru/spiritual leader/God/etc.
'(...) primitive passtimes (...)' - paStimes [- to pass the time / a pastime];
'(...) not ready to face the lack of purpose of life.'
Ah, well, doesn't sound quite right (I would say 'not willing/ready to face up to this meaningless life of ours' or 'confront' / etc.)

You will answer any problems? ('Mail them to me') : Sorry we already have our Arnon Grunberg to cater to all our needs...
Our own 'mensendokter'.
[We used to have a 'poppendokter' when I was quite young !]
Lovely words...

We (i.e. I) know there is no hope, that's more or less implied in these posts.
Life's a game, rules of which change day by day, and we are playing it as best we can.
This religion we are contemplating is part of this.
Finally, I'm afraid your expectation 'that in the future all religions will be regarded as ... pastimes' is based on real wishful thinking.
[Never in history has any religion been considered a pastime by the way!]

You say there is no hope, but it seems this is what you are hoping for...
Forget it.

@ Dominika S
'Pissed off' : the closest you get to unhappiness?
So you only get angry? Never unhappy? Lucky you!

'Bedlam' our anthem?
You mean the Exodus number?
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkZXN7_U9Og
(There's also: Exodus - Funeral Hymn and Exodus - Brain Dead !)
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernova_(Polish_album)]
Nice, but I'm afraid thrash metal/rock isn't very suitable to sing to in church...

Bert

I'm not a jester, I'm the Redeemer.

bertweter / Arnon

@bert
Thanks for being so fatherly. I had potato soup with Wiener Würstchen for supper today.

@ Arnon
What if it's only daughters for you?

Sander

In a few years or so I hope to have a son. You can name your croquette after him. But I want to have a delicious bonbon named after me. I want a lady on the Upper East Side to say: “I’m having a small Arnon with my cappuccino.”

Arnon

http://www.dominiquepersoone.be

That's your man.

mieke

There is not only a Cabernet, a Chardonnay, a Merlot but even
a Gewurztraminer with my familyname!

Mieke Dutoit: “Concerning Philip Roth, it was a small article I've read this week in a local newspaper wich stated that Mr. Roth feared people wouldn't be able to concentrate on reading any more in the future..”

I have difficulties reading books. I read very slow, and usually can’t stay concentrated long enough to read more than a few pages. Which sucks, cos i’d like to read more books. It is however easier for me to listen to audiobooks, and much easier to watch a video; seeing a person reading a book, or online lectures of some kind. I can stay concentrated longer, and i find it easier to understand whats being said (relative to reading text written down).

“... that reading is an endeavour wich needs a lot of attention of the reader. Training is essential if you want to become a good reader.

I wonder what requires most ‘energy’ of our brains, reading written words or watching images, video’s?

Arnon - and I assume you would say, I shouldn’t generalize what applies to me - I wonder if children today who are more confronted with internet then ever (all the video’s you can find on the net, the amount of choice, the easiness and speed to get hold of the information ) if their brains aren’t better trained at getting information through these channels rather then by reading books?

I’m always eager to know whats been written on this site, just not always like putting in the effort to read the (sometimes long) mails.

Vera

Great, that will make the contest even more interesting.

@ bert

Exodus? No, no, no. We're not having a black mass, are we now? I think book-burning is enough sacrilege for one belief-system...

Elvis Costello! That's who came to my mind when you wrote about 'goodbye cruel world' (the title of one of his albums).

@ Arnon (the Redeemer)

I know of a book called "My chocolate redeemer" :) Guess someone stole your idea for a religious bonbon :)

Arnon

Sorry Arnon, you can't redeem anyone but yourself.

Arnon

Would being happy be considered a sin in your cult thing? - An attractive thought, actually.

Flesh&blood

Wow! Arnon's flesh and blood do raise quite a discussion!

@Arnon
I would certainly prefer bonbons. Pure chocolate with cherry liquor inside!

Carlos

You clearly aren't a true believer yet. Believe me, Arnon can.

Grunberg candy

@ Mieke Dutoit
"Carlos
There is also another one on the market who is just named "Dutoit"."
You didn't refer to yourself, did you? "another one who" !
You did mean another wine called 'Dutoit'? Which would be: "another one which/that..."
[Interesting: decades ago a phrase like 'The house, whose...' appeared in the English language for the first (?) time.]

@ Arnon
You're the Redeemer, perhaps I could be your jester... No 'court' but 'cult jester'.

@ Juliane B. ('Thanks for being so fatherly'...)
Do you need a father?

@ Dominika S
Elvis Costello? Ok.
But there is an oldie called 'Goodbye Cruel World' by James Darren (in the top 10 of 1961 !)
http://www.jacquedee63.com/goddbyecruelworld.html
That's what I was thinking of.

You forgot to mention that "My Chocolate Redeemer" was written by Christopher HOPE !
How perfect can this cult of ours get? (Nomen est omen, etc.)

@ Teresa
Being happy would be one of our deadly sins, of course.

@ Sasja Mirskikh
- chocolate creams - liqueur bonbon - cherry liquor inside, etc.
Yes, that's what we need and love.
Although they will start ruining your teeth of course; do we care/(caries)?

[http://www.visser-chocolade.nl/producten/bonbons/
http://www.gefelicitaart.nl/taart/detail/342/bonbons.html
http://kook.rubriek.nl/eten&drinken/sexy_chocolade.php]
=========================================

bertweter

The position of a grandfather has become vacant the day before yesterday.

Mieke

Can someone else atone for your sins?

Juliane B.

Fine, I'll gladly play the role of your grandfather.
So, you are going to be my granddaughter, right?
Ok, many kisses....

Carlos

In real life the innocent sometimes have to pay for the offender.

Carlos

Arnon said: "I'm the Redeemer."
For me that's a fine example of his sense of humor, something I love to play along with.

Flesh

vous avez le complex du Christ, hahaha

le vin oui, mais pas le bonbon s'il vous plait...:)
j'ai une amie qui aimerait vous rencontrer le 23 novembre a Amsterdam et qui aimerait vous rencontrer, elle fait des biscuits
pourquoi pas un biscuit avec votre nom, plus facile a digerer...

Mieke

Why do you think I'm not playing along? Do you really think I believe in Holy Communion and Redemption?

Who is the Great One who makes the grass green?

Bert

You asked about Heinlein's "Stranger in a strange land". I vaguely remember the story (after having looked it up). I read every Heinlein I could get my hands on when I was about 12 or 14. White South Africa had excellent libraries for white South Africans and I was both an avid library-goer and a great Sci-Fi fan. Have you read much Ballard? If you enjoy Heinlein you may well enjoy him too.

Mieke / Carlos Dee

There's a wonderful Dutch poem on this subject of sin and redeemers:
["I am the way, the truth and the life" -John 14: 6.]

J.A. dèr Mouw (Adwaita)
"Ik ben de weg, de waarheid en het leven"

Ik ben de weg, de waarheid en het leven,
Ik zelf ben de Profeten, ben de Wet;
Ik heb geen Christus nodig, die mij redt;
Mij hoeft geen God mijn zonden te vergeven:

Vergeven wil ik Hem, die heeft geweven
Van goed en kwaad 't verraderlijke net,
En, Kruisspin, Zijn vergift'ge scharen zet
In de angst'ge ziel, ondanks haar spart'lend beven.

Eerst joeg Hij ze op met groot misbaar van donder,
Zwav'lige bliksem en geplas van regen;

En achter 't net Zijn goddelijke zegen,
Aantreklijk door lokaas van bloedig wonder.

Ik ben de Scarabee, de Gouden Kever,
Aas niet op bloed, scheur 't web, veracht de Wever.

(Brahman I)
----------------------------------------------------------------
-- "Ik heb geen Christus nodig, die mij redt;
-- Mij hoeft geen God mijn zonden te vergeven:
[I don't need a Christ that saves me;
I don't need a God to forgive my sins...]
-- Ik ben de Scarabee, de Gouden Kever,
-- Aas niet op bloed, scheur 't web, veracht de Wever.
[I am the Scarab, the Golden Beetle,
Do not go after blood, tear down the web, despise the Weaver.]
================================================
So I am with Carlos Dee on this point.

On Heinlein / Ballard:
I haven' read that much science-fiction, but I did read JG Ballard's 'Empire of the Sun' (1984).
Also a long time ago. That's the one you were referring to?

I would sink my teeth into you and suck the filling straight out.

C. Van Der Meer

We are talking of bonbons here?

Michelle

Comment votre amie appelle-t-elle ?

Bert

So am i, i am dead serious when it comes to bonbons.