2009/11/16 New York
The truth
Too early
David Denby writes in The New Yorker: ‘“The Messenger” joins the group of strong Iraq-war movies that, like rejected suitors, stand hat in hand, waiting for an audience to notice their virtues. (My canon includes “In the Valley of Elah,” “The Hurt Locker,” and the commercially conceived but affecting “Stop-Loss.”) Box-office wisdom holds that it’s too early to make movies about this conflict, but how can it ever be too early to make a good movie?’
“The Messenger” is a good movie, though not as impressive as “In the Valley of Elah” or “The Hurt Locker”.
A.O. Scott is positive as well, but the last paragraph of his review might explain why I was a bit disappointed by “The Messenger”: 'No movie can convey the truth of war to those of us who have not lived through it, but “The Messenger,” precisely by acknowledging just how hard it is to live with that truth, manages to bring it at least partway home.'
I expect from art to convey the truth of things I have not lived through. “The Messenger” doesn’t exactly fail to do this, but there is something unsatisfying about the belief that those of us who haven’t seen combat will never be able to understand it.
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31 comments 
Shit scared
As Alfred Korzybski, the father of General Semantics, wrote: "The map is not the territory."Can any movie impart the feeling of being genuinely afraid for one's life?
@ Carlos
I very much agree with you. And I love the quote.In general I think any form of art would never be able to 'convey the truth of things' - whether we have experienced them or not. Of course that's what art aspires to. But we just live in a cave, chained to a rock, watching shadows dancing.
Carlos
Nor literature nor movies should strive to be "the map".Dominika
Plato had more interesting things to say than your paraphrase of his metaphor.@ Arnon
Yes, of course. But this simple truth still escapes some people.Bert Hesper is by far the most charming editor on this planet, but as he's not reacting, here goes:
Nor nor -- Neither nor
Nor nor -- Neither nor
Arnon
Should art then strive to be the territory itself?Aliefka
• [as adv. ] poetic/literary term for neither : : nor God nor demon can undo the done.Carlos
Perhaps.Dominika
Some "simple truths" may have escaped you as well.@ Arnon
I'm not saying they have not.Arnon, oh my, I never knew that. Neither-nor was hammered into us at girl's school in London. The Geography teacher claimed The Hague was the capital of Holland and I got suspended for disagreeing with her, so indeed: the neither-nor obsession could well be wrong too. Unless nor-nor is used solely by poets? Where is Bert Hesper anyway?
@post by arnon
I know have read 'I expect ... through.' over and over and i wonder what it is that you expect.Do you mean that , by regarding arts, a thruth awakens in you by being handed over material to reflect on?
Would you always expect this from art? It's never true anyways. I think. Even if you lived through it.
Uttam
If it's never true it could also be always true.And how do you know it's never true?
Verheezen
I dislike the word "awakens" but it is a possibility, yes.aliefka
It's time for you to move beyond your girls' school in London.Oh no Oscar, please don't make me. It's all I have to show-off about.
Aliefka
You're quite right: "nor ... nor" is archaic and not correct in modern English.Awakens is a bad choice indeed
Maybe: 'is constructed' instead
Maybe: 'is constructed' instead
Perhaps, but this would apply to truth not to art? Whatever the former or latter may be I never claimed that I 'know' that it's never true. I believe it's a common truth.
As an invention, does art fabricate your expectations or do your expectations dictate what art should be? I would argue that some is better left unsatisfied.
Either way, I have an inkling I'm being childish here. I hate the truth and got triggered. My bad.
As an invention, does art fabricate your expectations or do your expectations dictate what art should be? I would argue that some is better left unsatisfied.
Either way, I have an inkling I'm being childish here. I hate the truth and got triggered. My bad.
Carlos
Archaic is not the same as incorrect.As somebody who claims to be a translator you should know that.
Uttam
At least you are conscious about your hate.Arnon
Two possible conclusions can then be drawn:1) You deliberately chose to write archaic English.
Or:
2) You made a mistake and don't want to admit it.
As you may have noticed I am not inclined to correct others' English. But Aliefka was not wrong.
Aliefka & Carlos
Or he (Arnon) was making a deliberate 'nor - 'nor', or he was saving time on his typing (his admitted reason for making typos: letting me correct them was more 'economical'), or he was whatever (trying me)? Or - or - or - or.: in the same way you can say nor - nor - nor....But comparing/mentioning/etc TWO things it's of course standard use to say either - or, neither - nor.
Either it rains or it doesn't: the excluded third, etc etc...
@Aliefka
You were being ironic I hope?
Or even sarcastic?
Bert: I hope not sarcasm. It being a mark of cynicism, I find it to be a rather unattractive characteristisc. Especially in females past the age of 30. Irony, however, when used well is a delightful tool wouldn't you agree?
Oh and Carlos. Thank you. I say this only because I am aware that anyone associating themselves with me may well be subjected to the irritation I am still hoping to repair. I've ousted the vanilla scented candles. I have bettered my life. I have now been reminded: don't push your luck. Leave the fingerwagging up to Bert.
Carlos
Have you read Nabokov in English? Have you read Gerard Reve in Dutch?Archaic language has been part of a rhetorical strategy for decades.
As an avid reader of this site you should know that I’m more than happy to admit to even the tiniest typo and to thank the amateur editor for his or her kindness.
Hesper
1. You think too lowly of the copyeditor. Correcting author's typos is common practice in the publishing industry.2. You said that you are an unemployed teacher. Given how you “teach” fellow commenters on this site the conclusion is justified that you don’t get the distinction between teaching and showing off an inflated ego. This is a common trait among self-appointed teachers.
copy-editing etc
@ AliefkaIrony is a delightful tool, I agree.
But the other two - sarcasm and cynicism - are tools as well, provided they are used with some care and they don't become automatic reflexes to anything.
I understand what you mean, however, some females might have sarcasm as their one and only tool. (Can you see my finger wagging?)
So you are past 30?
@ Grunberg
1. I do?! / I know...,... I know..., ...I know... (- Sybil Fawlty on the phone)
2. Didn't know I was 'teaching' here. Didn't mention it on this blog either. (!)
Just having some fun, that's all.
I am certainly not self-appointed: it was you who started this talk of 'copy-editor' and now of 'teaching'. I'm done with teaching, although an old dog might occasionally show some old tricks, of course.
The inflated ego must have to do with my dismissal of Coetzee, whom you admire?
But then I'm 'leaping to conclusions', I guess.
Hesper
I release you from your task, self-appointed or not.[ Add comment ]
