Elections

This makes me thinking of what many people in Iraq say: 'We don't want democracy, we want freedom'.

Churchill's non-democratic British Empire

Mr. Greenway seems blissfully unaware that it was Churchill and Gertrude Bell (a one-time anti-suffrage activist) who created the artificial state of Iraq. By placing three ethnic groups - Sunni, Shia and Kurds - in one country, the state was deliberately designed to have internal tensions. And, of course, continued British control of the Iraqi oil fields was a top priority.

The truth is that Churchill was an alcoholic racist. He never believed in democracy for the subjects of the British Empire. Democracy was reserved for his own "stronger race". Apparently he didn't even believe the Italians were capable of a democracy: he applauded Mussolini.

democracy

Do the Italians have a true democracy with Berlusconi?
And what would constitute a 'true democracy'?

to Bert: about true democracy

For a true democracy to work a lot of restraint from her citizens seems necessary. In California, with its system of referendums it doesn't work: people vote for laws in favor of them and against laws which are not in their favor (i.e.: taxes). The result: a bankrupt state.
On the other hand, in Switzerland it seems to work rather well.

Maybe Arnon knows more of the Swiss 'succes' in these matters

Peter

Switzerland is an exceptional country, with exceptional chocolates, exceptional mountains, and exceptional banks. (And exceptional trains as well.)

Swiss women

Switzerland was also exceptionally late in granting Swiss women the vote. (They only got the right to vote in 1971, and it took until 1984 for a woman to be appointed a member of the Swiss government.)

By comparison, women were given the vote in Germany in 1919, and 1920 in the USA.

Arnon

But living in Switzerland?

This reminds me of the New Yorker cartoon of the couple at dinner with three kids, and the father saying, "Because this family isn't ready to hold democratic elections--that's why!" It's also impossible not to think of the possibility of voting under the threat of violence.

Peter / Arnon

'The Swiss 'succesS'?
What would that mean?
Reminds me of Orson Welles' famous quote about Switzerland:
"In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock. "
Orson Welles (1915 - 1985), The Third Man, 1949.

By the way, the USA is an exceptional country as well: exceptional mountains, exceptional lakes, exceptional natural parks, exceptional banks, exceptional trains and railways, an exceptional democracy, etc.

Hesper

The cuckoo clock is not Swiss, it is Swabian.

Bert

The US railway system is by no means exceptional.

...and one wouldn't think this is the time to be mentioning US banks, though perhaps they are 'exceptional' now.

Ms. Haus

The largest Swiss bank, UBS, also almost went bust during the credit crisis. The Swiss government bailed it out by buying a huge stake in it. In a globalized economy everything is interdependent.

It wasn't so long ago that people were labeling Dubai as an exceptional opportunity. Lehman was exceptional until it collapsed. Maddof was treated like a prophet until it turned out he was running a Ponzi scheme.

Never for a minute believe bankers have your interests at heart.

Grunberg

I know, you should have told Orson Welles.

To Arnon

Perhaps you would take interest in Herman Hoppe's 'Democracy: the God that failed.'

Pjötr

Thanks!