Dear Arnon

What makes La Louvière more appropriate than Wiesbaden?

I am in doubt about the word 'cloche'. Very directly translated and probably losing all poetic subtlety:

Pretty ladies

Make life beautiful

But ugly ladies

Make everything stupid

I don't know how to say it but when it comes to men's reactions to the presence of pretty ladies those reactions are pure stupidity.

Something like this?

In Dutch...

Vrouwe Wonderschoon
Maakt het leven ongewoon
De vrouw met haren op de rug
Zet die klok weer heel snel terug

...and English

Lady Beautyfull
Makes life wonderfull
But the lady as ugly as sin
Puts you back to the begin

ça cloche = het klopt niet.

Sander

What about : make everything dissonant

Eddy, Sander, Mieke

Thanks a lot.

I appreciate Eddy's attempt at rhyming (we don't need two l's Eddy, but that's a minor detail).

For "cloche" I found the word "nincompoop" as well. Never heard of "nincompoop" -- but what a beautiful word.

Karol

We should go to La Louvière at our earliest convenience.

some possibilities

the pretty wife
makes up for life
but is the lady vile
than life is turning hell

or

the pretty wife
makes up for life
but the ugly gal
turns life into hell

or

the pretty wife
makes up for life
but is the lady ugly
than life becomes a pity

my personal preference
is the middle one.

ps
the 'ma' in line three
looks like an error to me.

karol l.

If you are the karol l. I want to congratulate you
with the award you recently won.
Congratulations!

de mooie vrouw
maakt dat ik van het leven hou
de lelijke vrouw
zegt donder op nou!

Arnon

I would really like to go, but do we feel that the time has come to do so?

Vera M.

I am. Thank you very much.

Karol

Let's go there first for a "gaufre" and while nibbling on the "gaufre" discuss a dignified death.

On translating the poem

It is quite surprising how such few words can bare such puzzling problems for a translator.

I gave up my attempt.

nincompoop

Beautiful words indeed:
nincompoop
noun idiot, charlie (Brit. informal), fool, jerk (slang, chiefly U.S. & Canad.), plank (Brit. slang), berk (Brit. slang), prick (derogatory slang), wally (slang), prat (slang), plonker (slang), coot, geek (slang), twit (informal, chiefly Brit.), chump, dunce, oaf, simpleton, dimwit (informal), dipstick (Brit. slang), dickhead (slang), gonzo (slang), schmuck (U.S. slang), dork (slang), nitwit (informal), dolt, blockhead, ninny, divvy (slang), pillock (Brit. slang), dweeb (U.S. slang), putz (U.S. slang), fathead (informal), eejit (Scot. & Irish), thicko (Brit. slang), dumb-ass (slang), gobshite (Irish taboo slang), numpty (Scot. informal), doofus (slang, chiefly U.S.), lamebrain (informal), fuckwit (taboo slang), nerd or nurd (slang), numbskull or numskull Only a complete nincompoop would believe a story like that.
[Collins Thesaurus of the English Language – Complete and Unabridged 2nd Edition. 2002 © HarperCollins Publishers 1995, 2002]

And English has all these lovely words for a(n) (ugly) woman:
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/woman

the beaut
makes life good
but the ugly birdy
makes it dirty

"There are only three things to be done with a woman. You can love her, suffer for her, or turn her into literature" [Lawrence Durrell Justine]
======================================================

de mooie vrouw
maakt mij blij
de lelijke vrouw
maakt mij saai

the sight for sore eyes
makes life good & nice
the hag
will make it a drag

‘Ma la dame moche…’ or ‘Mais la dame moche…’ ?
Vive la gaufre !

la belle-doche

I am not certain about the interpretation of the French. Doche seems to have something to do with mother-in-law. But assuming the interpretation of the others is correct:

a pretty young thing
will make your heart sing
but an old boiler
can be a real spoiler

arnon

have you been to wiesbaden before?

The devil has a nice penis.

Beata

Many times.

Bernard

"Ma la dame moche".

Dens

Are you jealous of the devil's penis?

Fred

I assume "ma" is slang for "mais".
Not that the collection itself is titled "Posie".

that's how i read it, arnon, but it's the first time i see it.
it made me think of 'encore un et je VAS, encore un et je vais'
in the song 'l'ivrogne' by jacques brel
but there it's premeditated, i suppose.

anyway, i love language stripped bare.

one of the best phrases in this respect
is j.c. van schagens 'ik ga maar en ben'.

I'm fairly happy with my penis, but I must admit this devil has a nice penis. I wonder what he uses it for.

arnon

what have you done there?
went to the casino?

Beata

No not the casino.
Once I stayed in Wiesbaden while visiting the "Buchmesse".
But I have been back to Wiesbaden a couple of times.

Fred

I haven't seen "ma" for "mais" before either. But that doesn't say much. We should ask a native speaker.

@Dens
Like Aleister Crowley wrote: ‘The devil’s cock is always erected (and his seed is cold. He leads the nocturnal Sabbath and satisfies men and women)’.

Oh how I'd like to be satisfied by this devil.
Thanks for sharing, Bernard f.

Dens

Please, don't get me wrong, but I'd love to inspect your penis. Just for literary reasons.
I hope we can set a date in the spring of 2010 for this inspection.

Couldn't it be, that Topor wrote 'ma', so that it would rhyme with 'la'?

Pjötr

That's possible.

Mr. Arnon

Would that be with or without grooming?

arnon

i contacted two friends of mine in the french world of academia. here the answer of one of them, psycholinguist at a paris university (jussieu): 'A propos de "ma" pour "mais", c'est très rare en effet. J'ai déjà entendu ce genre de substitution mais je l'ai très rarement vu écrit. On entend parfois, dans un langage populaire associé à l'imitation du parler des italiens : "Ma ché..." : "mais de quoi s'agit-il ?" avec un ton d'évidence non questionable mais c'est à peu près tout ce que me suggère cette expression de Topor.'

Dens

Everything is included.

Fred

Thanks!

Topor was a very original man.

schluss

ma?

an answer by a sociologist of the university of strasbourg:

'Le "ma" en lieu et place de "mais" s'emploie effectivement, mais dans un parlé intime et familial plus que dans l'espace public. C'est une notation qui renvoie un peu au vocabulaire de l'enfant, quand celui-ci ne maîtrise pas encore les mots. Il témoigne d'une certaine proximité avec l'interlocuteur et constitue un léger signe d'humour (à employer avec précaution).'

two intriguing letters.