Great picture. Funny to realize that you automatically judge such a soldier as being sympethatic, even without knowing what violence he might have used against human beings.

picture

He's just a soldier. Doing the thihgs he's told to do.And he still thinks that's the right thing to do.

Too bad this intense and brief interview will never be published. Unless you become as big as Goethe, then we will know what you said at 11.54am and there will be people interested in it.

fantasy

Ladies and gents, what exactly is the difference between a writer’s fantasy and the common male fantasy?
In my modest opinion what you call a writer's fantasy is just a small upgrade from the more common thing.

Soldiers have great options: to obey or to disobey (no money, no work, no house). Nowadays they also bare personal responsibility for their actions, actions dictated by the Anonymous Incorporated Governments of the world, or kind of. While we blame the soldier, there is a big bonus for any management, who learned their Nuremberg lessons well.

PS. A writers fantasy in your case is an essential upgrade from the common thing.

The difference may not necessarily be in the fantasy (not all writers share Mr. Grunbergs upgrade in that aspect and I know some poeple who have great fantasies but cannot write a decent sentence), but maybe more in the willingness and ability to put the fantasy in words? As to the ability: not all writers share Mr. Grunbergs upgrade in that aspect either.

The fantasy

The so-called writer’s fantasy is at the end I’m afraid nothing else but a typical male fantasy, in other words an erotic fantasy.
Probably there is a market for pornography for intellectuals, somebody once told me that he would like to produce pornography with no human sounds, just Beethoven, but this doesn’t mean that one should aim to disguise his or her erotic fantasy as something more or something better. The upgrade from male fantasy to writer’s fantasy is a mere illusion. This illusion works on two levels: the illusion of what a writer actually is and what kind of fantasy he has. And then there is the illusion that your erotic fantasy can be upgraded in order to overcome its rawness.
But the rawness is in my view an essential part of the fantasy. The “upgrade” is just another word for denial. (How can you battle your fantasy when you deny its existence? One could argue that the erotic fantasy is an enemy of the civilized human being, but then all I can say is: To fight your enemy you have to get to know him first.)

Actions

Arnon, just spoke to "David" of the Vondelpark Openluchttheater. Although generally speaking the Vondelpark Openluchttheater hosts only music-events, he was interested in the idea for Mud Wrestling Event for Peace. I needed to confirm to him that you would be the 'initiator' and the chairman. Anyway: I said Johannes would email him to discuss further details and give follow-up: david@openluchttheater.nl or 020 4283360.
http://www.openluchttheater.nl/
(This may be at the expense of me having to publicly expose my issue, does that deserve a coffee? )

More fantasy

I think an upgrade (of fantasy) only means that the fantasy is more elaborated, shows more details, has more points of view, in short has more style.
But you have a point, some intellectuals actually told me that their sexuality is totally different from a working mans desire. Not to mention that female fantasies are considered totally different from men’s wet dreams and so on.
We all nourish illusions, what would we do without them.
So dear writers only upgrade to more stylish fantasies in honour of the raw material.

Tirza

Half an hour ago Amita finished reading "Tirza".

I said "How are you feeling?".
"Hm" she said,".....give me a hug".
"Is it that bad?"
"I think that I have to read one or two romantic novels, then I feel better"

At the last page of Arnon's books the phonenumber for "Correlation" should be added, or a discountcoupon for the Bouquet Series.

Arnon Grunberg presents...International Female Mud Wrestling for Peace 2007

Tess,
Great, I will contact David to arrange something for the end of August 2007. The 'Arnon Grunberg presents....International Female Mud Wrestling for Peace' will be held in Amterdam.
Everyone, we need women, so keep your eyes open for a muslim, a jew, a christian, even mennonites are welcome.

Tess

Johannes needs your help. Don't let him organize this mud wrestling event alone, I trust that you'll do your utmost to assistant him, it's important that a woman, and you claim to be a woman, will mold this event into a shape that can be called desirable by all parties involved.

Jan Thys

The erotic fantasy does have only one point of view. It is not a novel. That to begin with.
And it's funny that you mention the amount of details as proof for the fantasy being upgraded.
More details make a fantasy more vulgar.
That's another reason why you should be careful with allowing good friends, husbands and wifes, family members and your girl friend into the fantasy.
The erotic fantasy is made for strangers. And for your mother as long as you are a young boy. (Let's say less than seven years old.)

Arnon & Johannes, to start maybe we shouldn't call it a 'female' mud wrestler's event. As you know, these days our new Christian politicans have put an embargo on too much female nudity. Peronally, I'm still trying to figure out what my position is on emancipation and nudity/pornography. Anyway, we don't want Balkenende forbidding the event from the start. Then again: if women were to rule the world, there wouldn't be wars. So in fact, it should actually be the male mud wrestling event for peace. Much more logical.

Tess

You can do mud wrestling without being naked.
The idea is not to promote nudity or indecent behaviour.
Swimsuits for religious women do exist. I propose that all competitors will dress up in a way that none of the prophets could object to.
The event should not attract too many dirty old men, or dirty young men for that matter.

@ Johannes and Tess

Could you please arrange the mud wrestling event after the Lowlands festival (17th-19th august)? I'd love to compete. Ever since being a kid I've wanted to do oil/mud wrestling sometime after seeing it on television in a 'Klokhuis' show.
Of course I also think peace is (and especially World Peace) is very important .
I'm a catholic btw.

Balkenende

Tess, we do want that Balkende forbids this event, just imagine the headlines. This is not supposed to be hostile as I am a peaceful man, but I'm getting the feeling that you don't take peace very serious, am I wrong?
Or does your husband object?
Anyway, please be helpful.
Tina, that's the spirit. And yes, we won't plan this in the Lowlands weekend.
There is no age limit, anyone who's grandma is fit and eager can join the competition.

Johannes

I respectfully disagree. We don’t want the prime minister of the Netherlands to get involved in mud wrestling, we don’t want to be controversial or subversive, all we want is to give a platform to women from all ethnic backgrounds who like the idea of mud wrestling for peace. (Or just like mud wrestling.) Also we would like to honor the legacy of Andy Kaufman.
There won’t be any plac for young people who like to be on television by desecrating the image of our prophet Mr. Kaufman.

Arnon,
I'm trying to take Tess's fear for the political climate away with a bit of rhetoric. Saying politicians won't tolerate this, is not relevant here. Apart from our work for peace this is art (art does not mean without ethics), so we have some artistic freedom here. As a matter of fact, I think Balkenende will like the event, as we are pretty decent.
To be controversial is a dubious goal, I agree with you, but If we are here to celebrate Andy Kaufman, we have to remind that he got the whole southern community - I don't know if there were any politicians - angry at him with his wrestling act. Saying: 'Please go to the kitchen where you belong' and his 'chicken act' before and after his wrestling matches are in fact a little bit controversial. Maybe the word provocative is better, I don't know.

Johannes - you yourself sound like a religious freak everytime you claim "anyone who is for peace must be for mud wrestling" etc (in different words). It sounds like a bribe, 'those who don't promote this mud wrestling event are not for peace' ('those who don't come to church will burn in hell'). Of course I'm for peace. That's a non-issue. Mud wrestling 'for peace' is irrelevant to me, mud wrestling for fun (fun leads to peace) is the way I see it.
Why throw mud at the only person who's shown some concrete initiative? It's always that way isn't it, those who take action find themsleves in the line of critical fire, even from behind. So, I think I'll pass and leave you guys to it. Peace to me means respect.

Tess

The question is not whether one favors peace or not. This is a non-starter. I agree with you on this.
And Tess, nobody is throwing mud at you.
I would like to ask you to retract your decision. It doesn’t matter whether you are involved in this project for fun, for peace or to act out certain fantasies. All I know is that your involvement is crucial.
On behalf of everybody who thinks Andy Kaufman is as close to the messiah as possible I beg you to join this small group of peaceful mud wrestlers.
Do you think a bribe would help?

Irony

Tess,
You seem to have missed the irony of my comment.
That's a pity, but not the end of the world of course.
(Other people didn't interpret my words as if they come from a religious fanatic, who mailed me to tell that they would like to do something for peace.)
Do you still hate me for the small discussion we had?
Anyway, don't you think it's a bit childish to walk out on this?

Oh for chrissake Johannes, stop putting me in a position as if I'm in charge of this. Why should I be? Like all the others who have emailed you saying they'd like to do something for peace, I am the same. All I did was make an extra phonecall for YOU to start as noone seems to be taking specific action. So I did, basta. For the rest: I'm with you and the others, and so I'm NOT walking out on this. Just tell me, like you would tell the rest, what to do and I'll do it. Again: I'm NOT in charge, I never claimed to be or said I wanted to be, so stop it.,please. It's very annoying.

PS: if YOU AND ARNON want or organize this then do it the right way and step up to the plate: call me/email me and everyone else that's shown interest, set up a meeting and decide what exactly this event should be (called) and who does what and when and how. You're using words against me that you claim I used but never used. And you're putting me in a position I never asked to be in. If you're looking for heroes, fine, but maybe Mud Wrestling is not a very heroic thing to organize.

ok, Tess, now we're talking.
First of all, no one said you were in charge. We're doing this together, so please don't panic.
You made a phonecall (not for me, but for the wrestling event to be exact) to David of the Openluchttheater.
The Vondelpark is a perfect location. I e-mailed David and I'm waiting for the response. If we have a date for the event in August, that's the next important step.
There's no need to set up a meeting in this phase, it's just too early.
Sander Voerman, aka the Wizard, is constructing a site (Arnon Grunberg presents...), Bas Kocken is making a poster. May and June are probably months to go out in Amsterdam for some propaganda (flyers).
In the meantime, for chrissake, stay cool and most of all relaxed. Could you promise me that?

Okay, phew. I told you I was a hysteric, remember? And hormonal at times. I'm not good with male expectation - I think.
IAnyway, emailed you this morning with some suggestions. But seeing as things are rolling smoothly under your command, I hope you'll let me know where I can be of (specific) assistance and what I can do. Everything except speaking in public and phone calls.

Booze, milk & cookies

Tess,
don't cultivate your hysteric behaviour.
And use it as an excuse for being hateful/intolerant/unkind etc. etc., that's even more pathetic.
If you were more sincere, you'd repeat the the tone of your e-mail.
But hey, maybe you're an alcoholic. If so, please bring the booze to the mud event, and not the cheap liquor.
I'll bring the milk & cookies (in honor of Andy Kaufman).

Johannes, it's interesting you claim to be for peace. Until now, all you've been dumping on me is a truckload of shit.
Why?
I'm going to sign out for a while, peace starts with self-reflection and self-criticism.

PS Johannes

I notice a pattern: you were as aggressive during our last 'discussion'. As it was boring for all other readers and commentators, I offered you to take it elsewhere and gave you my email. You didn't respond. The offer still stands.

Tess,
the discussion was ended. Actually, I was a little bored myself, because of the silly statements you made.
I like silly things, but not silly mixed with agression (maybe this is a good description of hysteria). The same with the mix of abortion and literature.
Good luck with self-criticism and self-reflection. May you find peace in yourself. (But maybe that also sounds aggressive to you, you never know)
By the way, why would you make an appointment with a person who is in your eyes agressive? That doesn't make sense at all.

This is just in from David of the Openluchttheater:

'Beste Johannes,

Ik heb met Alisca Bijlsma gesproken vorige week.
We hebben het er hier even over gehad.
Ik moet je teleurstellen, ons augustus programa is zo goed als vol.
Bovendien past jullie evenement eigenlijk helemaal niet in ons "concept".
Dus ik moet jullie teleurstellen helaas.

Met vriendelijke groet,

David Vos.'