Maybe as soldier after battle?

Let's hope you will never be in such a battle, but I think Jan has a point. Traveling can be a battle too I guess.

Better the shirt than the man.

Don't throw it away, I would love to have it for my collection.

Mieke

I use it as a pillow and a sheet. I'm not ready to unpack my sleeping bad, given the fact that I hope to leave tonight.

don't get killed

Remember, originally Iraq is the location of the garden of Eden.

To David Martino

Forgive me to expose my ignorance, but what perspective have you shed light on? Do you consider it sensible to draw the following conclusion: because X is untouched by Y, therefore X thinks Y unworthy of touching. I prefer to keep the debate more or less abstract (and therefore away from you, and other commentators), because it seems to me you are quite sensitive about receiving direct comment. I do not blame you for this sensitivity. We are all nothing victims of ourselves.
To come to an end, I’d like to know what is the correlation between your father, and your high school teacher. Please take care of your answer, as I am most curious to know to whom my speech resembles.

Arnon is that true? You're ashamed about a torned shirt? You're going to Iraq! The locals there don't worry about a torned shirt or worn out shoes. You're going to Bagdad Hilton drinking with the expats? Playing tennis and lying at the pool?
I thought you went on a severe mission.

Pjötr

You are related to Victor Crebolder, right?

Antonella was right. You're spoiled. Be careful not to play the role of the big , successful writer all the time. Sometimes Arnon himself has to pop up.

Dear Pjötr,
I hate to stir up your useless little debate - or cry for attention (in which case I forgive you) - but could you please give your cocky elucidation a rest. I am trying very hard to value your opinion, but find it sheer impossible due to a lack of well-founded argumentation on your behalf. I think no-one but you sensed hostility in David's original reply (cfr. 'Two'; ages ago) to your rather provocative comment to begin with. On top of that your arguments explore the edges of ridicule.
And I mean this without any outspoken feeling towards you.

Helen

Do you think that all poor people wear torn shirts? Do you think that they don’t have any pride? Do you think that people in a war zone by definition don’t care about torn shirts anymore?
Do you think that soldiers wear torn shirts?
This kind of reasoning is typical for the ignorance and arrogance of backpackers traveling to “the third world.”
It call comes down to the pleasure of not taking care of yourself and still feeling superior to everybody around you.
And what the hell do you know about the worries of the “locals” in Iraq? This is really unbearable.
I suggest that given the condescending tone and the ignorance of your last comment you take a break till I’ll be back from Iraq, okay?
((The discussion about expensive torn jeans is another matter.)

Helen, have you and Antonella for that matter ever considered that Arnon might not be playing a role. And further, what is wrong with being ashamed about a torn t-shirt and what has that to do with being spoiled. Also some humour while reading this might be in place.

@Arnon

I think we were agreeing at exactly the same moment. Weird.

Pjötr

Still the patronizing tone.
Keeping it abstract and away from other commentators? You first said some commentators acted like mothers, and then you suggested Arnon must be disappointed about discussing with his readers.
I like bitterness, but take some responsibility for what you write.
Yes, I'm oversensitive, who isn't?

Helen

Read "all" were I wrote "call" in my last comment-- excuse me for the typo.

helen

And read "where" instead of "were" in my last comment. Once again excuse me for the typo.
Hope to hear from you again in about three weeks.

Arnon

You cannot apologize over a typo after you have a go at someone.
That's like slamming the door and then returning because you forgot your gloves.

Natasza , probably I misunderstood. Then you're right. I read the comment as a serious matter.

Arnon, why so mad about me? Really I was very serious and not trying to criticize but tease you a little bit. But I reached a sore spot. And my comment on the poorness of some people in Iraq was really ment like that. If my understanding about people in warzones is wrong please correct it. i want to be nuanced. I have worked with Iraqi people ( strong 40 year old housefathers) who couldn't concentrate anymore and were crying in the classroom because of worrying about their relatives when the news spoke about bombings. in Baghdad a while ago. So I do care. If I insulted you , I"m sorry I never want to insult anyone. ( but teasing is another matter. )

@Arnon

Arnon I wasn't commenting at you, but at Helen. I was a bit annoyed by people just saying sometimes things which in my few seems out of place. If they can't read properly than they should take things less seriously. I don't understand what in your blog points to you being spoiled.

@Helen, sorry, I misread your comment as being from Arnon, however, the rest I wrote stays the same. Why do you think Arnon is spoiled?

Helen, read few as view, guess Arnon is not the only one who makes spelling mistakes. Excuse me.

Arnon,
I lived in Sri Lanka for 4 months all alone by myself , in between a local very poor family in a village . They had no running water ( from the well) , washing my clothes in the river, and cooking my food on a real wood fire. I loved playing with the children of "my" singalese family and I still have contact with. them . Although they are very poor I respect them very much and consider them as well educated and proud people. The children had torn shirts and they worried about it. When they went to school it was important to dress well however it was a burden to buy the clothes.

Natasza
I was teasing Arnon a little bit and tried to refer at the Branzino ( was not tasty enough) and the shirt ( torned) . Probably it was my prejudice to think the gap between the luxury trip as ( very succesful) writer in Italy and a trip as "war observant" in Iraq was to big. ( my arrogance... I'm sorry) I wasn't clear enough in my comment.

Spelling!!!! to = too and some dots ( it's the emotion)

@Helen

Helen, I guess we all got a little bit emotional. I can't speak for Arnon, but I believe you are sincere. I guess I just got somewhat tired by people who share all kinds of opinions about someone we don't really know that well. In my opinion Arnon is more human and real than many others. I surprises me again and again that some people on this blog, who don't seem to get what they want or need, start to lash out , here or on their own blogs, to an author who in my view never pretends to be anybody else than himself. Personally I like that about him and it reflects in his writings. I also believe you are not one of these people.my view never pretends to be anybody else than himself. Personally I like that about him and it reflects in his writings. I also believe you are not one of those.

@Helen

Sorry for the doubling of the last sentence, my computer seems to be upset too ;-)

Natasza

I think you are mistaken when you say that you believe "Arnon is more human and real than many others", or that he "never pretends to be anybody else than himself."

First, your boyfriend, husband, mother, or neigbor are more real than he is in your life. Second, I would say that a writer with Arnon's intent will accept that one cannot be who one is in any social environment, let alone in language, and that surely one of his objects is to construe a persona that will be better equipped to play his role than "he himself" is. There is no "he himself"; it is lost in his books. But his books are an account of that loss. Most people go without such an account.

Funny to read how you seem to know exactly what other people should think or how other people should see things. I can only tell you what is real to me and you clearly didn't grasp anything I said here, which in itself is not a problem at all. I didn't mean real in a literal way, neither did I mean that Arnon is always ‘playing’ himself (although I wouldn’t rule it out), however even in the role one plays is consistency and sometimes you need to look beyond what someone is displaying on paper or on a blog. There are more things real than only that what you can touch. But all this is also not so important. My point is and was that I get sometimes annoyed by people who are expecting things and when their expectations are not being met, start to lash out on this blog or their own blogs. I have read one of these blogs today and I was really a bit appalled that that person still comes to this blog . Why, I than wonder. Maybe I should not have mentioned anything, I normally observe, but sometimes it just bugs me to read some statements about someone, in this case Arnon, just because he didn't respond to ones comment. Sorry I am a bit ‘short’ in my comment, I haven’t slept for over 48 hours, but the feeling stays the same. If you don’t mind, I will now go back to just being an observer.

Helen Priso

Your fly is open.

@ Helen

I think it's more appropriate to consider Arnon privileged than spoiled. In my mind there is quite a distinction between the two. While a spoiled person is so preoccupied with his one minor adversities, Arnon stays alert for the affinities of the other. Here I think F.E. at his description of Irina, his manicure lady, and of his cleaning lady.

i would just like to say that i think it is pretty hilarious that arnon starts to lash out against someone who is saying he is spoiled, when he is on his way to Iraq to meet an army of soldiers! HAHAHA people who are trained to kill!!!
or maybe that is his adjusting to the new environment. not taking any shit anymore. the block and counter technique.
this may make it more comprehensible, not less hilarious though!
on a sidenote. i would love to see some pics of arnon in a uniform. and with a nice M16 in his hands. thatd rock.
"dont call me spoiled, or ill kill you!"

@Jurriaan

I think you might have missed the point of the lashing out. I believe it was not the fact of being called spoiled that was unbearable, but the preassumptions about what 'locals' care about or don't care about and other plain idée fixes.

Oscar
I really don't understand what you want to say..

@Helen

he is saying that locals are very preoccupied with the clothes of the army that is occupying their country. if the clothes are torn, for example, they might get offended. as long as you occupy a country, at least take care of your clothes. the nazis understood that. thats why the dutch, for example, loved the nazis so much during WWII. (...)

@Jurriaan - I read your blog and couldn't help wonder what you'll be thinking if a few years from now that Serbian colleague of yours wins the Pulitzer prize while you still find yourself behind the very same desk you are behind now. But perhaps that's exactly why you hate her so much, deep down you know....

@noa

i don't hate her. i was just annoyed by her loud voice. and than the whole situation all swirled down to one big annoyance. read carefully before you judge, my friend.

@Jurrian, yes, well, that's an interesting way of putting it. "I'm sorry I kicked you but the way you do your hair and talk simply annoyed me." It seems none of your friends disagreed with you and the way you guys were dumping on her behind her back felt awkward to me. It reminded me of the popular kids in high-school. Interestingly though, none of the poular kids ever win Pulitzer prizes. Usually the opposite.

@noa if you really are so interested in me, i advise you send me an e-mail, instead of spamming arnons blog with your puberty frustrations. thanks.

@Jurrian, "if you really don't want people reading your blog and reacting to it, I suggest you stop spamming Arnon's site with the link to your website." I'll send you an email, though, if that's what you prefer.

well thats fine with me. if you leave a comment somewhere on my website, i'll give you my email-address.

@Jurrian. I sent you an email yesterday - ontlasting@livejournal.com, it was all I could find under 'userinfo' to your site. No matter really.

im sorry but i dont think that one works. could u maybe comment on my website and than i will give you the email and you could send it again..?