32D

I think it was 32D , but that is irrelevant. In any case, this should put any doubts to rest:
http://tinyurl.com/6rkvr4

I thought 32D was a perfectly normal bra-size in the States? I think the people that ridiculed you aren't aware - different countries, different indexes. Even in bras.

Sometimes it can be difficult to distinguish between inches and cm's. I believe that the ideas about the perfect bra size differ not only per country, but per person too.

@Michel - I just noticed the link finalized the bra size- debate.

Here, I learned more about bra sizes, than when shopping with my companion. I did not knew there were so many – I only looked at the colors.

I was pretty sure about 32D being an existing bra-size, but people laughed harder than I spoke.

Size does matter

Apart from the fact mentioned above that 32D is a perfectly acceptable US and UK bra size, in Italy bras are sized ID IID IIID and IVD. In France sizes start at 80D onwards. Only in Northern Europe 75D would actually be a bra size (74D does not exist by the way). This woman is in for a surprise if the airline ever loses her luggage.

Interesting that, the topic being bras, people automatically believe the woman. Didn't anyone in the company consider the possibility that both parties could be right?

In a way all of this sounds so lonely mister Grunberg, let the girlfriend pay the next time her own bra's or let them pay yours ;)

Arnon

Michel is truly gifted at finding bras on the Internet. The one on the top right is nice, don't you think?

The day before this conversation I sat at approximately the same table and talked about bras as well. It was about the feminists and why women would want to wear bras.

I once read that girls oughtn't to wear bras too early on. They should wait until the age of 20 or something. Free breasts will become more firm in the later years. Maybe that's why pre-mature (not to be mistaken with premature) girls are more beautiful in their later lifes.

Vilde

I prefer this one:
http://www.barenecessities.com/Felina-Julianna-Bra_product_Felina11344_,search,32D.htm

@Arnon, I'm relieved the one you like isn't red. Red lingerie is slutty. For Vilde I was thinking a deep green.

To Arnon

Her choice of name, and self confidence.

Yiddish as a language is dying. By opting for 'Vilde Khaya' she obviously takes pity on the lingo. And I have a weak spot for those who carry out Jesus' word in such a way.
I repeatedly have suggested that this site (in my perception) seems to be your attempt to get to know your readers, (dein Publikum) .
My current perception (that is ever more provisional) of your readers is that they tend to either endorse you, either
to show signs of sectarian reasoning.
For now Vilde Khaya doesn't seem to have the ambition to join that trend.

Do you find these considerations to be reasonable?
Are my first sentiments (being therefore equally provisional) towards Vilde Khaya justified?

What? Are men supposed to have expert knowledge about bras now too? If that is so, it is a sad day for mankind.

By the way, "khaya" means "home" in Zulu, Xhosa and other Bantu languages.

I wonder why Vilde did not want to give her measurements. Is there an element of transgenderism here?

I vididly remember being the subject of ridicule on this blog for underestimating a woman's number of orifices.

Arnon

Why, of all bra sizes, did you mention size 34D?

Oscar

The most obvious answer is that I met somebody with this bra size.
But to be honest I cannot remember how exactly the question of bras and sizes came up during the discussion.

Pjötr

Vilde is more qualified to answer these questions.
As to the commenters: I haven't tried yet to analyze their comments and behaviour, but your gut feeling might be right -- Vilde comes across as an exception.

Noa

I like slutty lingerie.

Vilde

Could you please let me know if you like the bra I picked.

Oscar

Have you ever bought a bra for Laura?

@Pjotr, what does sectarian reasoning mean? My impression is that a lot of people hide behind googled knowledge. I wonder why.

@Arnon, I think slutty lingerie raises the stakes. When a woman wears slutty lingerie, a man will raise his eyebrows and think 'oh goody am I in for a treat or what'. There's a distinct danger of disappointment, perhaps she'll never live up to the fantasies her slutty lingerie triggers. I prefer modest lingerie as this then holds the possibility of surprising someone. Lingerie - quite the poetic metaphor wouldn't you agree?

Dear Noa,

What do you consider wrong with 'googled knowledge'?

yours,

Eric

@Eric. I didn't say there was anything wrong with googled knowledge in itself. It's a reality, a fact of life (aka this blog, any blog). What I wonder about is why people hide, and why they would - amog other things - use googled knowledge for this purpose. That too is not a judgement but an observation. I'm wondering whether the desire to impress (Arnon, is there an exciting latin word for 'deisre to imrpess?) is simply another way of saying - to hide. Which is only human.

@Vilde
If I may ask, how would you describe yourself (as a wild animal)
-a solitary one, like a cat ?
-a social one, like a wolf ?
-a common one, like most of the wild humans, an office tiger ?

Noa, sometimes googled knowlegde is simply the only way to get what you want. E.g. I earned an invitation to a cheesefondue in Montreux (which is in Belgium) with Arnon by googling the answer to a question I could never have answered myself. I guess by now Arnon is over the disappointment that the dinner company was less intellectual than supposed...

Arnon

Sorry, but I don't love the one you picked.
What do you think of this one?
http://www.barenecessities.com/Calvin-Klein-Deco-Embroidery-Demi-Underwire-Bra_product_CalvinKleinF2896_,search,32D.htm
It's probably not slutty enough for your taste.

Arnon

This one is sluttier, and has a matching thong:
http://www.barenecessities.com/Calvin-Klein-Florentine-Underwire-Bra_product_CalvinKleinF2904_,search,32D.htm

Noa, what do you think? I couldn't find one in green, but it's a nice idea.

Pjötr

I too am a little confused by the phrase "sectarian reasoning." Could you try again to explain what you mean?

@ Vilde

Vilde, name a price and sell yourself to Arnon, selling in parts is at the end no fun at all!

Bernard

That's why I like the name Vilde Khaya. It allows for an infinite variety.

@Vilde, thank you for asking my advice, because chances are Arnon is getting irritated that I'm interfering.
I'd pass on the red thongy thingy (although it's hard to tell exactly because there's no photo of the 'derriere').
Ideally, I'd envision you as being a no-fril, no-lace kind of woman and therefore this --
http://www.diesel.com/collection/diesel/intimate/
For you, 3rd row, last picture
For Arnon (so that you match), 1st row, fourth picture.
There were also some powerful pieces on a Dutch designer's website (Marlies Dekkers), eg in her 'women's collection', 6th picture.
http://www.marliesdekkers.nl/

Vilde

I do like the Calvin Klein bra, but on second thought $42 is perhaps too cheap a present after everything you have done for me.
Shouldn't we look for a bra that is at least more han $100?
If I have to give you a green bra I will end the affair before it even started.

Noa

I don't like to go to bed with women who live in constant fear of disappointing me.
By the way "hubris" orginates from Greek.

Arnon

Not yet.

As I'm typing this, I'm listening to an interview with Kader Abdolah. I remember someone saying he's the most incinsere writer this person knows. I wonder why.

I didn't know Abdolah talks with such a heavily influenced accent. I imagined him as a person who talks flawlessly.

@Arnon, well, you argue this to the negative if you like. I mean it in a positive way. How boring would life be if there weren't any surprises to unwrap? Perfect little gems to discover. Little nipples if you like, that have not already been exposed by see-through lace.
Hubris is Greek. I see. Well, thank you and as said before - i did not know what Hubris meant. So I wouldn't know its origin either. But, you know me -- haud ignota ioqur.
(see, I too cannot resist the temptation of google)

Typo - my fingers are cold and stiff and old. Haud ignota loquor.

Noa

It’s always more fun to go shopping with another woman. But what you picked is a little too aggressive for me. Even a beast can aspire to restraint.
When I “zoomed in” on the underwear you chose for Arnon, it showed me a picture of the guy’s six-pack rather than the underwear itself. Do you think we could get the six-pack for Arnon?
By the way, this Dutch designer has a very interesting conception of maternity clothing.

Dens

It is entirely possible to speak flawlessly with a heavy accent.

Vilde

I am a little disappointed in you, Vilde. Is there an object more restraining and unwild then a bra? Being the savage animal you are, I had expected you to choose something more daring,f.e. a parachute jump from an airplane with Arnon. Do you think he would take the challenge? Or would he chicken out of it?

Arnon

It always comes down to money for you, doesn’t it?
Well, underwear doesn’t get any more expensive than this:
http://www.laperlausa.com/USA/servlet/com.dsdata.taxi.tecx.SetIDWebObject?ID=8633&IDType=prd&ColorValueID=0002
Note that the one I picked is on sale.
If you prefer the Calvin Klein, it comes in two colors. You could always get both. I don’t like the matching underwear, but these might look nice with it:
http://www.barenecessities.com/Calvin-Klein-Lace-Color-Block-Thong_product_CalvinKleinF2902_,search,S.htm
I had no idea you so despised the color green. Or would a green bra make the sex=money connection a little too explicit?

Mieke

I'm afraid of heights.

Noa

The Marlies Dekkers collection is very nice. That's my taste. If I were still into investing in under

... wire, that is.

@Vilde, I bought tickets to Marco Polo opera on Friday 28th nov. Would you like to go with me? It's a pity Arnon's in Germany, or I would have offered them to you both.

Yes Oscar, I am aware. I tried to be as nuanced as possible, and I would like to say he talks flawlessly with a heavy accent, but sometimes his grammar is English-based.

I started wondering about this phenomenon in the light of scincerity. Maybe you will never be able to talk a language like its natives if you feel superior. The French, for example, talk with a higher pitch than us Dutch-speaking. I always feel funny talking with a higher pitch in French, and maybe I do feel too good to talk with a higher pitch, I'm not sure.

To Vilde: on sectarian reasoning

Quite some commentators are very eagerly fetching for the leader's love.
A similar uttering on an earlier occasion resulted into quite some disturbing insults from those readers. That is why I feel it is necessary to stress that there is nothing wrong with fetching for one's love. Nor am I being judgemental about it.

Arnon suggested - not without reason - that you should answer one of the questions initially addressed to him. Would you grant me that honour?

Vilde

Sorry, I imagined you to be a bird.
No problem, there is still depth. Wreckdiving is great. A little dangerous maybe. You have to make sure you don't get stuck.
Otherwise rafting in the Grand Canyon.
Or hunting in the Canadian woods. I think Arnon is keen on killing a deer once, if I'm not mistaken.

Vilde

Your remark abou money was really hurtful, almost anti-Semitic.
Today a friend sent me this joke: "The financial situation at the moment is so bad that the jewish girls are now marrying for love"
Would you be willing to marry me for love?

Getting married

If you want to exchange the admiration of many lovers for the critique of one man, get married.

@Vilde
Only a lion would answer like you did. I think you are a lion. A lion queen.

@Mieke
Do not be too harsh on wild animals, please. Wild animals spend most of their time, sleeping, eating and procreating.

Pjötr

I'm still not entirely sure I understand your question.
Do I take pity on the Yiddish language, as if it were a dying animal? No. But even if a language is dying it may still be useful.
Am I here to experience the joy of sects? Also no.
Do you still think you could fall in love with me? Feel free to address me in German to avoid any further confusions.

Arnon

Are you proposing?

Noa

Specifically, who are you accusing of hiding behind "googled knowledge"?

Oscar

Do earholes count as orifices?

To Vilde

You are getting my observations and questions mixed up.

The only question I had was: "Are my first sentiments towards you, Vilde Khaya, justified? " (My sentiments based on your use of Yiddish, and self confidence. )

Your offering to continue in German is most appealing, and I am most flattered by it. Although, as long as our conversation takes place "in dieser Öffentlichkeit" it seems more appropriate to stick to the lingua franca, being English.

So far I have every reason to believe that my love for you is more than hypothetical.

@Carlos, me myself and I.

Carlos

Yes, and nostrils too.

Pjötr

Oh. Apologies again for my confusion.
But I can't tell you if your sentiments are justified. Follow your heart, mein Schatz.

Vilde

If you are open for arrangements I'm definitely proposing to you. Are you Jewish? I have to inform my mother about this development.
And what exactly do you mean with six-pack?

Dens

About Kader Abdollah: Several women have suggested his heavy accent is put on. Iranians I know speak very good Dutch with only a very slight accent. I have seen before that it is possible to "hide" behind being a non-native speaker and that people do make use of it. (For example apparently only understanding the bits they want to hear.) So I think it is possible. But whether it is true is another matter. A woman's intuition tends to be good about this sort of thing. Unless of course the woman is attracted to the person in question - in which case her intuitions become absolutely useless.

Mister Grunberg really, shame on you for mocking me as I didn't know the origins of hubris, while you yourself do not know what a six-pack means?
The bulges of six beers packed in plastic -- the bulges of six great abs packed in a man.
Different people know different things, let's leave it at that.

Vilde

In light of the new development, some additional notes on the cities Arnon mentioned.
I wouldn't go to Montreux. That's so wrong, so out of date and place. It would make you look ridiculous, except if you are in your mideighties and still wearing petticoats.
Amsterdam is too provincialistic.
Dublin too Irish.
And New York too obvious.
There is still an alternative though.
Berlin!!!
Hot , trendy, cool and very arty.
You both speak fluent German, that might add a spark to your arrangements.-It can give new meaning to the word Sonderbehandlung.-
So, Berlin: the perfect place for the match of the year.
More important. Arnon is in Germany at the end of the month. He'll be able to organise something on a short notice.
Mazzeltov.

why not transform this website to a very special dating comunity, a little row with pictures of all the members and a very expensive membership, maybe Arnon can ask for breast sizes too, and religion, background, etc...he will find the perfect women whom also loves his work.

and let his mother choose, let her choose!

@Pefko, please allow me to nuance your opinion of the women here by reminding you that not every woman flaunts her sizes here (Vilde for one didn't, neither did quite a few others -) and that a few men on this website shared their inches with us. And some women actually dare challenge Arnon, contradicti him or annoy him, I haven't seen as many men here do the same.

@ Noa

You are right, the only point i wanted to make is that it's in a way strange how Arnon acts and reacts on some of the woman that leave a comment on his blog.
That some of the man share 'their inches' is great news.

Noa,
And i wasn’t saying that every woman here on the blog tells her size, i only suggested a very good dating community for writers, journalist and admirerers of mister Grunberg.
Not like other dating community were they ask questions like: “What is your favorite body part?” No, more like: “Do you hate yourself?” or: ‘Did you ever had sexual fantasies about your parents?”

Noa

There is a distinction between mockery and pointing out that “hubris” originates from Greek.

Pefko

What is your favorite body part?

Carlos

From myself or a woman?

@Arnon, literally speaking yes, agreed. You told me hubris could be dangerous and therefore suggested I suffered from it. If you then tell me hubris comes from Greek, I take it you weren't intending to be graceful. If you were: thank you.

Pefko

You're excluding donkeys?

Carlos

tell me the most beaytiful part of a donkey please, maybe we have some things in common Carlos!

Pefko

I'm the psychologist. I just sit here and ask questions and nod sympathetically.

But, since you're curious: I've always had a fetish for elephant trunks.

Carlos

Thats very interesting, i am also something like a psychologist, but one who needs one. It’s strange you are mentioning Donkeys, because i think donkeys are very nice and very sad animals at the same time, i have much in common with donkeys, mister Panzer from a while ago will agree i think.
The trunk of an elephant..thats interesting. What’s the fetish about, what does the trunk do with you?
What is your price for a two hour session?

Arnon

I am a Jewish mother's dream.

Pefko

I mentioned donkeys because I have a recurring dream of Sarah Palin, naked, riding a donkey. Sometimes I wake up and imagine it was the donkey riding Sarah Palin. But that can't be right, it must be my hangover playing tricks with me.

I'm sure you'd find what the elephant does to me very boring.

Why do you imagine yourself to be a donkey? This sounds serious. Do you see yourself as a donkey in dreams? Do you see yourself as other things?

As somebody in the business of psychology, I don't take difficult cases. They tend to leave unsettled bills. Its hard so sue someone who has been committed to an asylum or has jumped off Brooklyn Bridge.

Noa

Based on one of your comments I had the feeling you believed that "hubris" originated from Latin. That's all.

Vilde

My mother's dream might be your nightmare.
But anyhow, could we get the ball rolling then?
Or are you a bald man with bad teeth?

Carlos

Without knowing about your dream i was just very surprised you mentioned this animals, because some months a year i live very close to a road that has a couple of these animals standing up a little hil, tied with ropes so they can’t walk away.

I don’t really imagine myslef beinig a donkey, i just meant to say i feel something for them. If you come very close to a donkey and you look them in the eyes, sometimes you can see what ever you want. I don’t know if this has anything to do with the size of the eyes, or the sometimes very cruel situation were they are in.
Maybe Sarah had the same with them in your dream? Because i don’t see a donkey riding her, maybe other animals, but not a donkey.

Ok, so i understand i can’t take anny sessions, although i will pay you and won’t jump from a brige.

Tel me about the elephant and about your drinking, you can call me ‘David’ if you like.

Arnon

"Vilde
My mother's dream might be your nightmare.
But anyhow, could we get the ball rolling then?
Or are you a bald man with bad teeth? "

Misschien moet je mijn idee over de transformatie van deze site toch iets serieuzer nemen als ik dit lees.

Arnon

Does your mother dream of a bald man with bad teeth?
You can rest assured, I have all my own hair and teeth.

Vilde

My astrologer told me that you are a bald man with bad teeth. She might have been wrong about the teeth and the baldness.

pefko

English still is the lingua franca on this site.
Please try to work on your close reading abilities.

Grunberg

I am very sorry.

Arnon

Should I take this to mean you think I am a man?
A man who wears bras?

Vilde

You wouldn't be the first man who wears bras and has a weak spot for me.
All I can say is that my astrologer is convinced that you are a man. You might be Jewish but you are definitely a man, according to my astrologer.
You still haven't answered my qustion regarding the homemade liquor.

Arnon

Homemade liquor? Did I miss something?
Did you tell your manicurist you finally found a prospective bride? Let me guess -- she thinks I'm a man too.

Vilde

Homemade liquor: see comments on entry "outing".
Manicurist: I will see her next Wednesday. What should I tell her? You are not a man, you wear a bra, you are afraid of heights, you say to strangers "mein Schatz" and you know how to use google.

Arnon

Do I sense a hint of jealousy?
Would the homemade liquor be in addition to or instead of the Klaus Mann novel and the bra(s)? What flavor is it? And would I be drinking by myself, or would you share it with me?

Vilde

This is what I offer you: a bra, homemade liquor (Ron Lander, what kind of berries did you use to make the liquor?) and the Klaus Mann novel.
All I ask in return is that you show me evidence that you are a woman. I don't mind if you are eighty or sixteen, that's all fine with me, as long as you are not a hairy man with bad teeth.

Arnon

about 'close reading' yes ok, but what was it that you thought Vilde was? A bold man or now a hairy man? Maybe she is a hairy woman with very bad teeth..

Blueberries.

Arnon

So now you lay down the gauntlet.
Very well, but precisely what sort of proof do you have in mind?
Blueberry liquor sounds lovely.

Vilde

Meeting in person would definitely be a proof.
But I would not mind at all if you would send me some used lingerie. I have an open mind when it comes to dirty laundry.
Could give me an indication of your whereabouts? How many miles are you presently away from Tokyo?

Arnon

According to Google Maps, I’m currently about 36 days travel time (by car and kayak) from Tokyo.
Are you planning to be in Tokyo in 36 days? I could leave soon.

@Vilde, I hate to say this but in order to avoid coming across as a cock tease, you may need to consider following through. I see it as a matter of taking responsilbilty over ones actions. This was entry #100 and therefore closing it off, unless Sander has worked some new magic.