It is a very sad article.

Arnon

It's remarkable to see that in every picture you look like you don't belong there. Do you feel at ease on your trip?

Annojo

Certain ignorance is just offensive.

Arnon

Sorry for that, I didn.t mean it that way, it's just something that I notices while looking at the different pictures.

arnon

you seem to have almost no tolerance for ignorance.
are your friends all enlightened?
or are you able to enjoy certain type of ignorance?
or do you just act annoyed most of the time?
(I am not being offensive, I am just intrested)

Andrea

There are plenty of places where ignorance is celebrated as a virtue. This site strives to be not one of them. And yes it’s a thin line between cowardice, tolerance and politeness. Often I like to err on the side of politeness; sometimes I prefer to err on the other side.

Andrea

And furthermore: the opposite of ignorance is not enlightenment, the opposite of ignorance is being informed or to put it in a better way, to be conscious about the limitations of the information you received, ideally this consciousness should influence your words and your deeds, a certain cautiousness might be the result.

arnon

thank you , sir.

Andrea

Sir! Yes! Sir!

arnon

I just flirt with the idea of being polite....

Arnon

You talk about some kind of 'consciousness' and you talk about the limitations of the information that you received. And the effect that this should have on ones deeds and words.

That's all ok - I agree with you mostly.

Just please do not appeal to this in reaction to a remark about your sensitivity.

When you make such a thin-skinned remark about someone's 'ignorance' and how offensive that is, you lose the right to place yourself above parties. Parties that may or may not have not received as much information as you have. You've put yourself in the middle of it. And that was exactly the thing that you were trying to avoid, with your consciousness of having this special kind of 'consciousness'. Am I not right?

I hold you to be one of the few writers who still know what polemic means. You should not have used the words you did, I think.

Regardless of anything, I wish you good luck in Iraq and I'm looking forward to your writings.

T.R.

I didn’t react to a remark about my sensitivity or sensitivity in general, you are not well- informed. The matter of sensitivity comes straight out of your imagination.
There is a distinction between pointing out that some words or deeds might be offensive and the exclamation: ‘I’m offended!’
I’m not sure what exactly you are trying to say. You do give the impression that you believe that everybody who uses the word “offensive” must be “thin-skinned.”
Let me reveal a secret to you: that’s not the case.
I’m not sure where you live exactly but there is no need to look forward to my writings about this trip. These writings appear every day (except on Sunday) in the Dutch newspaper “NRC Handelsblad”. All you have to do is get the newspaper and read it. I know, it’s hard to be well-informed.

Andrea

You are such a flirt, you drive me crazy, honey.

Arnon

Would you prefer it if we would all limit ourselves to reading your books and articles, and refrain from commenting (e.g. on this site)?
You seem fed up with these conversations or are you just a bit grumpy?

Batta

Correcting visitors of this site or engaging them in a conversation is not the same as being grumpy. But in case you feel insecure: I love you all.

Arnon

You never seem to really answer the questions you are asked... (I believe we have discussed this before)
Very reassuring to know that you love us. I love you too.

To Arnon

I am quite sure there's at least a handful of commentators on this website you, by now, have fallen out of love with, and I am equally sure there are with whom you never sympathized.

Pjötr

Yes, of course.

Batta

What was your question, darling.
No, I'm not grumpy. Yes, sometimes my threshold for gibberish is low.

The printed version of the Handelsblad appears in Dutch only, doesn't it?

Juliane

Yes.

Batta

You can find all the answers you need about Arnon in his novels, his columns and his intervieuws. A lot is available on this site.

Batta

Almost every time I read a column of Arnon , I have the feeling I'm tiptoing on a thin line. I confess, I'm addicted.

Mieke

I would love to read the columns, but have no access to NRC Handelsblad here.

Arnon

Thanks for your answer. Now, about two days ago I asked you if you need help in any area at the moment. Although the question now is a bit off-topic, I would still like to know.
On another note; the violence in Baghdad seems to have been more intense the past few days. Another suicide attack this afternoon. Do you notice any change because of that on the streets, or is it 'business as usual'?

Batta

Business as usual.
Help? No thanks, but if you happen to know a reliable Iraqi translator for my next trip I might be interested.

Arnon

I know one. Reliable, intelligent and with a great sense of humour. Speaks fluent dutch.

Pjötr

I want your perception. Regarding your last comment, do you think I'm one of them?

Mieke

There is a difference between enchantedness and reliability.

Mieke

When did he leave Iraq? Has he been back ever since? What's his background?

Oscar

He combines both.

Arnon

He left Iraq something like twenty years ago. I don't know if he ever returned. He has a mandeïst background, so a very small minority. He still has relatives living overthere. But he is reliable and has a sense for nuance.

Mieke

Re: your question about orientalism --- Let's not have the orientalism-discussion again....
Of course I don't really have an obsession with Arab men. I just had an obsession with one Arab man for a while, but I am even cured from that one.

Arnon

I am sorry. I do not know an Iraqi translator. If my own Arabic was a bit better, I would offer you my translation services for your next trip, although I am not Iraqi as you specified the translator must be.

Batta

Thanks! I think it's important to work with somebody who is connected in Iraq. By the way I'm looking for a Turkish Kurd as well.

Mieke

Twenty years is a long time ago. Does he still have a large family in Iraq?

Arnon

For what it's worth; in my experience, 'official' translators (eg the ones with a degree in English or in translation / interpretation) are not necessarily the best ones. I found my best translators by simply going to a cafe or internet cafe, telling a few people there that I'm looking for someone who speaks good English and is interested to work with me or a few days, and then they start calling around, people start to appear. I chat with them for a while to see how their English is, and if they kind of understand what is expected of them. It worked out wonderfully well a couple of times. Also, once, a taxi driver hooked me up, although this was not a success.

To Mieke

What value would my perception of Arnon's perception have for you?

Batta

I wasn't looking for just a translator if you catch my drift, but thanks.
My experience with interpreters is plenty, for example: "One interpreter explains to the Americans that he can't listen and interpret at the same time, because then he misses important things that are being said. Lt. Col. Wilson asks for no further explanation, but he doesn't look pleased." (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/06/03/iraq_dispatch/index.html )

Arnon

That link does't seem to work with me, but I'll try it later...
You're looking for a translator who can also be a kind of guide, then? Someone well-connected, who can arrange meetings with people high up? Do you have any connections with Iraqi journalists? They'll be interested to meet you and may be able to help you connect, if that's what you need. Or human rights activists, but I have a feeling you might be allergic to those.
Maybe I'm not catching your drift.

Arnon

No idea, I have to ask him, but he showed interest .

Arnon

If I remember correctly from his storie he has at least one brother and sister left over there. He also mentioned that his community was active in the goldtrade and that that aroused a lot of envy.

Arnon

I got the link now. Indeed, I did not catch your drift.

Mieke

Is there gold in Iraq?

Batta

I'm not sure if you caught my drift now but anyhow this is not a place to discuss these things.

Arnon

Jewelry?

Arnon

I'm becoming more and more confused as to what can and cannot be discussed on this site...
Either way, I could come along on your next trip, arrange the 'tanslator' for you on the first day, and then spend the rest of the days arranging dates for myself.

Batta

Everything can be discussed on this site, which is not to say that any statement should be tolerated, but I don't think it's wise (for obvious reasons) to discuss my future needs of interpreters and guides in the Middle East on this site.
If you like you can write to johannes@arnongrunberg.com.

Arnon

FYI, I do know that your articles appear in NRC and I read them regularly. That is what I meant with "I'm looking forward to..."

And actually, I do think that most people using the word 'offensive' are thin-skinned. Either that or they have dedicated themselves to the thin-skinnedness that they (wrongfully or rightfully) attribute to others. (I'm not judging in general here).

One of the big problems of life, of course, is that so many people are thin-skinned.

To me, 'offensive' is one of those words that is best used ironically.

But it may be that your irony is lost on me. There is always the possibility that things are lost on me. If that is the case than I apologize.

T.R.

Are you suggesting there are no such things as taking offense and giving offense?
Should we ban the word "rude" as well?