And as one of the talkbacks wrote: don't send it from Givatayim (don't send it from Israel).
When i was telling Noa she doesn't want to live in Israel, i had in mind also the power of psychiatrists in IDF. Maybe meaningless to terror organizations but absolutely influential on anyone who did the biggest mistake of joining the army (basically you don't have much choice).

'Talkbackist' - commentator.

Neria

What do you mean to say about the psychiatrists in the IDF exactly?

That they stamp you with a "Stain of Cain" if you dare using their assistance to abort your duty service in the army. In my case it meant that the health insurance company where i had a policy prior to my service, did not welcome me back; i was no longer allowed to be their client. My driving liscence was taken away from me and i had to prove, on my own expense that i am mentally sound in order to get it back. I was refused from participating in some course run by the Ministry of Tourism, plus, against the law ELAL demanded my health documents from IDF basing their decision not to hire my services on the irrelevant hip of crap that was written there. In this respect Israel does remind Holland because if you stick out of the line they'll chop your head. The story of my service reminds feels like science fiction to me. My last post there was to check Palestinian women on the borders, and gee! the story of your pockets in Schiphol is so gentle and considerate next to what i was suppose to do to women i couldn't care less if they bomb themselves among a list of people i really dislike. It's a joke, i really hope that i didn't go to far here and that people understand it was a joke. But anyway, i didn't feel like doing it. My options were either to get married or to get pregnant, neither made much sense to me then as they make sense to me now. So i had to go to the psychiatric officer and bulshit something. And i did. And i'm paying every minute for that.

'heap'. I'll say it now, for the first and the last time: sorry for my imperfect English.

Neria

Why didn't you want to serve your country?

Evolution

i never felt this is my country. This is a romantic concept. i think it was yesterday when i read in the NRC about that raped woman in Riad who is now sentenced to 200 flogs and 6 months imprisonment. i guess i am lucky to be born in a country were women are less subjected to such sick cruelty from the hands of the government. Of course the situation is very different but i will not ask her why she dared not obeying the law of her country and sat with a man who is not a relative in the car (and then raped by another 6).
Among the job interviews i've done lately, i was also questioned why would i like to work for a non-comercial organization which does research on poor elderly, poor children etc. My answer was that it interests me because i'm poor. The chairman didn't hear me at first, not because my diction is that bad. I repeated the answer and then he giggled with the HR manager and they too answered that they work for this institution for ideological reasons.
i wonder if it is only me who lives in a place without feeling connected to it (i love falafel and the weather is nice, but that's all that connects me to this land). But if i am requested to do something that i find as humilliating without the conviction that it is necessary, i can't do it. Why did people served their country during WWII?
Israel is a very racist country and on top of it doesn't remember what socialism is. i identify myself with Shelly Yechimovitch struggles but it seems to be hopeless. My best friend Noa says that our type doesn't last in the process of evolution.
i went to the Western Wall last week with friends from Holland and we watched the imbalanced distribution of square in front of it, the division between men and women (sixth was given to the women), and just next to it a 15 meters of land that people are willing to murder other people for having the right to say it's theirs. i have the right to exist, now that i'm here, but i'm not looking to die just to prove it. i am simply tired being afraid all the time and i'm convinced that if people will have the chance to live normal life, they will not run that quickly kill themselves and othres. And i can't look into the underwear of a strange woman (and a familiar one too) to promise that religious men will have a disproportionate access to a wall. i'm not doing that.

Neria

It's not that often that I feel so ashamed for a fellow Israeli. Your "dear diary" stories these past few days seemed to impress the rest of the readers here and I did my outmost best to just ignore your oh so intellectual remarks. Even your funny joke about a women exploding, or blaming the psychiatrist for the consequences of having ' fooled' them to have a mental problem and not getting a job. Stating you have the right to live but not willing to die for it is like really the limit. Let others get killed so that you can live. Hell you blame the whole world for your failures so that’s just another issue of not having to take any responsibility.

Neria & Ilanit

I’m not sure if I would like to enter a discussion about feminism, Israel and whips.
Just two small remarks: your statement about the western wall failed to impress me. Don’t expect a holy place to be infested with feminism. There is a limit to everything, even equal rights.
If you think that Israel is a racist society and you decide to live there, and you are bothered but this racism, you should do something about it instead of trying to translate my books.
With all due respect but when was the last time you had sex? Both sex and the lack of sex can drive people crazy.
Ilanit: don’t feel ashamed of fellow Israelis, especially not fellow Israelis who are trying to translate my work.
We don’t need another outburst of nationalism here. If you want to be ashamed be ashamed of yourself, and as far as I’m concerned you have plenty of reasons for that.
When was the last time you bought me a gift?
Did you go to all the bookstores in Tel Aviv to see if my book is still on display?
Be ashamed, be very ashamed.

Gift

my last gift for you was 2 weeks ago. You didnt even say thank you. Maybe you meant I should be ashamed giving you gifts you never appriciate?

Ilanit

What happened two weeks ago?

I didn't mean it metaphorically. 2 weeks ago, during the mud wrestling Johannes was supposed to give you a gift. From me. I have no idea what happened but you didn't say thank you and Johannes doesn't answer my emails. I assumed he was angry I called him a snitch.

Gift

I once wrote a letter to Mr. Arnon, but that came back. No thank you there, but at least I know he didn't get it. Sometimes it is better to keep than to give. Isn't it, Johannes.

Dens

Arnon never thank me so I wasn't expecting thanks. He shouldn't publicly complain I give him too little gifts or not often enough. I once had to surprisingly read a column to find out what he thought about a gift.

Dens

Where did you send the letter to?

Ilanit

It was a busy day, that day in Kortrijk, as far as I remember Johannes didn't give me your gift. And Johannes is very reliable.
So I assume you are cracking a joke. Your attempt is highly appreciated.

boy I wish I was joking…

Mr. Arnon, do you remember that you posted a P.O. box in the beginning, It was there I sent it to, but we already discussed this.

Ilanit

Maybe Johannes sent it to me by mail. What was the present?

Dens

Yes, I remember, I do have a PO Box. PO Box 635, Murray Hill Station, NY NY 10016.
I'm not sure what happened there.
Why didn't you try to send the letter a second time?

Oscar W

Thank you so much for “Mucha.” The manager at Sant Ambroeus handed it to me with a big smile and said: “Your friend Oscar left this for you.” (He didn’t mention Laura.) While eating my mushroom soup I felt slightly guilty for desiring your Laura, but fortunately I was reading Kundera over dinner, and therefore I realized that it is perfectly okay to lust after wives and girlfriends of friends and acquaintances.

Ilanit and Arnon, i didn't choose to be born an israeli and this is the only nationality i have. i am not sending anyone to die on my behalf. You might send them. i am not choosing to live in Israel too, i did my best a couple of time to immigrate but failed. i am not Tali Fahima, she is a Jeanne d'Ark for me though. Ilanit, you seem to gloat at your ultimate revenge at anyone who refuses lesarev pkuda and Arnon, you missed the point, the Wall is only one thing out of many which i'm not willing to humiliate myself and others for. Your message Ilanait is that i can either play the game or that i do not exist. By the way Arnon, choosing to abort my servise is a polotical action, though i keep myself the right to decide if i want to make a career out of it or not. The bottom line again is that the issue of me not completing the whole service sabotages my chances to find a job again and again and again. i still think, that even with this knowlede (and i was very naive at 18 and had no idea what the concequences will be) i would choose to do the moral thing and it means i would have not do body search on anyone in order to secure my smooth future in Israel.

'oh so intellectual remarks...' - my mother will be proud. This is the first time in my whole life i'm being accused for uttering anything tinted with intellectualism ;))))

And Arnon, go do this phone call yourself to Xargol. i'm not your secretary.

Neria

I thought you were looking for a job.
And nobody chose to be born this or that. Or do you think al the Germans chose to be German?
Of course you are entitled to despise your “country” – but somehow you came across as a whiner.
Never mind. You didn’t answer my question about sex. I think it’s very relevant. Especially in your case.
By the way, Ha’aretz recently reported that almost 25% of the young men in Israel manages to avoid the draft.
Even for you, there must be many other options. Israel is not a cage. Maybe you should meet with Ilanit. When she was young she was known as a “professional loser” – then she met me and her life changed.
I don’t see any reason why there is no way out of the darkness for you. But don’t tell me that you are not my secretary. This is a little bit too much for a fallen angel on a Saturday night.
I mean: Do you think that you are my girlfriend? Or my mother? Or my niece?
Be happy that I’m willing to accept you as my secretary before finding out how fast you can type.
Speaking about ungratefulness

i will discuss my sex life publically once i'll become Dutch. If i'm an Israeli against my wiii, and a whiner, then at least i can enjoy the right to be affected culturally of my surrounding.
i asked the question about the participants of WWII and didn't place any judgment on them, while you and Ilanit force on me a route of heroism which i don't like to take, and when i refuse to take it you dare naming me a whiner. This is outrageous. i'm not a martyr and i don't plan to be one, especially not so that Ilanit will not be shame in me. i don't condiser Ilanit a fellow Israeli, i don't consider any of my dear Israeli friends 'Isareli fellows' neither. And i don't recall we discussed of me becoming your secretary, i was willing to do this geste out of friendly spirit only. Well, i don't feel so much friends with you anymore, plus, i'm a very slow typist so our professional relation future is also obscure.
From my point of view, you may keep Ilanit.

And by the way, aropos taking care for our survival, in the spirited discussion you and Ilanit had over security checkups at airports, Ilanit transgressed a professional code, telling everyone things she could only learn at the course, which are suppose to be calssified materials. So far, between the pathetic psychiatrist, the whining me and the nationalist Ilanit, i think she managed to inflict more harm on passangers safety.

Aren't we the champions of drama?

Whining

i accept this definition. i whine like a baby.

i was born on the day of 'Ma'alot massacare' and instead of being named 'Tehila' or 'Shira' after Agnon heroines, my sweet parents chose to name me 'Neria' as living memory of the 28th murdered adults and children (my name emblems a memorial candle, and also appered in the weekly biblical fragment [of that week] that is being read as part of the prayers). i wonder if Ilanit is named after her father or her brother that died in this or that national disaster, because otherwise it is simply a name of a frog. It could be that if i was named a frog i would make more efforts to become a hero.

And by the way, Ilanit, of the last 10 years how many did you spend in Israel? When was your last time you were payed minimum wages (if ever at all)? Did you go to demonstrate on behalf of the teachers last week? Or the physically challanged? Or the stuffed geese (Israel supplied their liver to Europe)? And this is all before touching the subject of racism. Or you count on your legendary servise at the army and your present tax payments.

Painting

Ilanit,
Some time ago I indeed asked you to leave me alone. That does not mean I won't do what I'm supposed to do. How can I bring over a large painting to Kortrijk? I don't own a car and Ialready had other things to carry.
Arnon and I discussed it, but please be patient. He is a busy man, he will get back to it.

PS

PS Ilanit, to be more precise, Arnon and me discussed your present two weeks ago in Amsterdam. The list with things to discuss was long. But no worries, the painting is blocking my walk-in closet, so I was about to send an e-mail about this to Arnon.

Mr. Arnon, I'm a man of god, when he gives me a sign, I take it. The returning of the letter I got as a warning. I must say I was rather pleased it came back. I think it wasn't a good letter. I didn't open it again.
I do tend to write crappy things, so.

If I'm not mistaken, the P.O. Box I have is a different one, but I might have to come back to you on that.

Ilanit

And let's say i did suffer of depression (which couldn't, in that situation, be far from truth). Unlike leaving the army because you have cancer, a desease you can heal from, the false notion that from a mental desease you cannot cure is a common one in Israel. There's no such possibility to go through a job interview without answering this question: what were you doing in the army? It is a society that gives abnormal weight to this period, no matter what other qulificatios one has.

Neria

I’m slightly fearful to continue this discussion.
Just thee small questions and a piece of advice:
1.What kind of classified information did Ilanit disclose on this site? She is a naughty girl, or rather a naughty Trojan horse, so it doesn’t come as a surprise to me, but it totally escaped that she disclosed anything that could be classified?
2.What was the Ma’a lot massacre?
3.And are you disclosing on this site that the Jews are responsible for the suffering of the geese? Keep it secret. Don’t give the anti-Semites another reason to hate a Jew, or to slaughter a Jew in the name of the geese.
4.If you need help, contact Noah.

Johannes

A person who decides to give a present to somebody should take a certain amount of responsibility for the transport of it.

Arnon

i guess you find geese stuff hillarious but Israel is a heaven to those who made a fortune from stuffing geese while it was no longer legel in Europe. The same thing is true to calfs who are purposely deprived of certain nutrients to make meet tender. By the way they are imported from Holland to continue their very short and tortured life in Israel. Well, it is true to the whole western world, just like raising pigs on floors.
Maybe i'm expecting too much from a country that till this very day draws its legitimacy from WWII where the extermination methods, starting from transportation to packing people in concentration camps came all from industrial agriculture inhuman practices. i thought you don't like Coetzee, but Isaac Bashevis Singer also wrote about these things (maybe you don't like him too).

This is the first thing that came in English when i googled: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maalot_massacre

empty walls

Arnon,
I know you are not responsible for the fact the huge painting is now blocking my walk-in closet, but before I send it over to New York I want to make sure you actually would like to receive it there. Maybe you have some empty walls in Dublin.

PS

PS And then the Fedex costs would be for Ilanit. That would be fair, right?

Neria

People should stop expecting better from Israel and from Jews in general. Period.
They are entitled to expect better from me. But that’s a different story.
Where did you get the info that I dislike Coetzee? You are totally wrong.
Just a straightforward question: are you mentally sound?
And if not, what can we do to help you?

Johannes

Paintings to Dublin please.

i agree with you that no one should have special expectations from Israel and the jews, and unlike you i really insist that no one will expect anything from me (including dying for such a banaal society, as i don't expect anyone to do that for me too).

According to the DSM i am mentally sound but i will appreciate it if anyone will consider me an investment and cover for the next five years of Primal Therapy + tuition fee for both the Primal Center and UCLA where i'd like to do the less fun part of the studies. i might emerge as a great tool and help people in return.

@ Ilanit

I'm a little curious. Did you paint it yourself? If so is Johannes allowed to send me a picture of it?

I would like a picture too (since I'm about to start loving Ilanit)

Mieke

I have no idea what Johannes is talking about. My present is not a painting and fits in a A5 envelope.

Johannes

Just send it back to me and enclose your bankaccount number .

Dens

About to start? I thought yo already did.

?

Ilanit,
Really? The painting wasn't from you?
Strange.

Bob Ross

Mieke,
I would characterize the painting style as Bob Ross-like.
http://www.bobross.com/

Johannes

I haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about and the real strange thing to me is you not answering my emails.

Ilanit

The real strange thing is your existence.

Manon

Charming as always this evening?

I can be very charming.

Manon

You most certainly can.

Ilanit & Manon,
Two words: mud and Vienna.

Johannes

What do you mean?

Manon

He means that my beloved Sigrit is going to organize a mud fight in Vienna next year. Sander will be co-producing the event and I'll be present as well.
In general commentators should try to be more charming -- Ilanit has a point.
Oscar's Laura is till now by far the most charming commentator. But Jan Thys is good at being charming as well.

Arnon

I will try to be more charming.

Jesus

Ilanit has a point?!
Let me citate a really charming guy: "Remove The Mote From Thine Own Eyes".

Manon,
Sorry I was a bit cryptic.

Johannes

Doesn`t matter, sweety.

Manon,
Thanks, honey.