2006/10/18 New York
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Bolkestein II

Civilization

While taking a shower this morning the remarks that Mr. Bolkestein, a retired Dutch politician, made last week during a debate here in New York, came back to me.
Mr. Bolkestein stated that all civilization is based on discrimination. He threw in the rather obvious example that he preferred Beethoven to the banjo player on the corner of the street.
Fair enough. And this is not “just a matter of taste.” I’m not that fond of relativism.
The debate focused on the limits of tolerance, which is to say, the limits of the Islam.
Mr. Bolkestein pointed out that Islamic culture is not equal to western culture, again fair enough.
Does this mean that people coming from this lower culture should be refused to enter let’s say a club? A bar, a dancing? If the answer is yes, Mr. Bolkestein should have said so.
And what I also would like to know: can you get rid of the lower culture inside you by converting to a higher culture?


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4 comments Last_comment
Can a lower culture inside be converted?...
Take it from someone with first hand experience: nope... I got two master's degrees from US universities and now a management level job at a great company in the Netherlands. I play jazz and blues. I speak three languages and yes, learned enough Dutch to read your books... somehow the western society reminds me continuously, and I mean continuously, that I am Turkish (a lower culture in the sense of Bolkestein)... not that I have a problem and want to escape from that fact but it is quite often irrelevant. Now that makes it impossible.
said Can Ersoz 18/10/2006 11:58 (Updated 12:01) • x
I think you can escape from this stigma quite well. All you need is a willing and enough strenght to do so. I don't understand why large ethnic groups keep tolerating these suppression. Alright, you've got the Al Qaeda, and Hamas and other groups trying to win the battle. But you don't win a battle by strength, we derive from animals, we aren't animals.. If you've got wits and persuation, y ou can make it anywhere.
It's like a man said the other day. It's not where we come from that's important, it's where we're going to. It's not what you've done, but what you're going to do. Make a difference, make people see. But you must see things in perspective. If I go to a tribe in Equador, I will be from the lower culture, because I wouldn't know how to survive. So adapt, not assimilate, but adapt. And toghether we'll make it through. I think. Is that naive?
said Dens Powwels 18/10/2006 13:24 • x
Irony of irony
Arnon, that’s a very interesting question. Will a man who is forced to dress like a woman, talk and walk like a woman, eventually feel and think like (be converted to) a woman? Harry Mulisch once wrote an essay about Irony. This article can be summarized as follows: ‘First you pretend to be someone you’re not, and then you become someone you’re not.’ George Orwell also taught us that the soul (your identity) can be squeezed out of a man’s body, like juice from a ripe fruit. But Can Ersoz shows us that even writers lose sence of reality. every now and then.
said Derwent Christmas 18/10/2006 14:07 • x
Never. Just like Mr. Onassis, he also was never really accepted by the Old Ritch.
said Jan Thys 25/10/2006 13:21 • x
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