De Sade

Re: "I could not think of a novel where infidelity makes the woman happier or at least where the unfaithful woman goes unpunished."

"Justine and Julliette" (1801) by the Marquis De Sade explores just that--how Justine tries to live a life of virtue and becomes raped and abused at every corner, while her sister Julliette submits to a period of vice, and finds herself living a comfortable life.

Highly recommended to certain female members of this here community.

Touched on this subject...

Arnon and Marek

Since I learned the both of you are taking French lessons: high time you learn some proper English . "Touched on this subject" really makes me wonder if you are gynaecologists instead of writers.

Re: "I could not think of a novel where infidelity makes the woman happier or at least where the unfaithful woman goes unpunished.": the (truly digusting) autobiographic novel The sexual life of Catherine M(illet) is all about a rather ugly nymphomaniac who even got praised for all her candid openess! Literature is a bit like a wheel of fortune, isn't it? (Answer: yes, it is...)She should have been flogged instead. Marquis De Sade on the other hand knew how to arrouse sexual appetite.

Sheers! ( Q:Who much longer has www.donkerland.nl to stay in exile?)

Victor

Oxford dictionary:
“touch on (or upon) 1 deal briefly with (a subject) in written or spoken discussion : he touches upon several themes from the last chapter.”
I told you before: Your presence on this site is not being appreciated. Could you please refrain from posting comments?

To all the men out there thinking about the concept of adulterous females- have you considered that women do actually have secrets? And are allowed to keep them, perhaps are even better at keeping secrets than men?

To touch on a subject talked about earlier: wouldn't a woman that is not punished for her misdemeanors be a typical example of a story with a happy end?

At least, a happy end from the female perspective. Maybe not so much from the male perspective?

Is it wrong to bring up this difference? I ask this because I realize that I may be ignorant and may suffer from a complex or two that I'm not aware of.

However, I did not feel any satisfaction in finding out Madame Bovary's fate. But that may be because her husband's fate wasn't much better.

Noa

Do you seriously think men don't consider that? That would be as naive as the naiveness you implicitly accuse 'men' of.

On another note: I'm looking for a novel about a total world war between men and women. If such a thing doesn't exist, someone should write it.

Women tend to make me sad too often. I have no other words than "hooray to punishment".

RH CdG

I read your father's piece about WFH's 'De god Denkbaar, Denkbaar de God'. It was a very interesting and clarifying read.

Arnon

The male desire to control female sexuality only has to do with the fact that a woman can give birth. The average man doesn't like to raise someone elses children.

Arnon

Why: did I really offend your sensitive soul? Go see someshrinks! Excuse me, but no: you opened this very blog for some 6.6 billion people. I happen to be one of those. What is the reason for this blog anyway: international sales, learning how to write in English, your private pond for compliments, exchange of thought...

I think you'd better deal with some kick & flounder.

Futhermore, where the f... is your sence of humour, picking up your beloved dictionary. ( I for one think it is hillarious to read your own comment on Marek's volume)

Sheers!

Tjitze

That is very kind of you to tell me. And it is nice to know the piece is still appreciated some 40 years after its conception. May I ask, did you read it in the book it is in, or online?

BBM

The battleground for the world war between the sexes is the bed. That is why it is Margot's and Noa's favorite spot, as they seem to dislike men. I suggest we call them members of the Black Bikini Movement.

Rutger

It moves me you now think of me on a daily basis.

Margot

I'm glad to be able to fulfill your desires.

Rutger

That's funny, I thought I was fulfilling yours.

Margot

That is funny. Unfortunately, you are not.

(funny or fulfilling)

Happier

Anaïs Nin was happy, Jean Rhys was happy, Erica Jong was happy, Oriana Fallaci was happy. All of these outstanding writers were fornicating and fucking around, big time!

But then, I allready noticed that a, you all don't give a shit and b, you don't read that much. Even your beloved Arnon and Marek seem to be somewhat solopsistic.: both of you be a good sport and let me in!

www.donkerland .nl now has a nice English department, actually. Just go and find the British flag ;)

Sheers!

You scare me, Victor. I'm sure that I would look to others with questioning eyes when you were real and in my presence. I'd seek someone to shelter with, be it just in thoughts.

I don't like you anyway.

Rutger

It's okay to be gay.

Margot

Is that you in the middle? http://portal.unesco.org/ci/fr/ev.php-URL_ID=19231&URL_DO=DO_PRINTPAGE&URL_SECTION=201.html

You know, you're not so bad looking, why don't you cheer up.

Rutger and Margot

Get married.

Victor

You were told a long time ago why you are not welcome here. Once again I kindly ask you to find a different outlet for your sense of humor.

Rutger

See hello to your right hand from me, it will be the closest skin contact you'll ever get.

Margot

Good lord, it *is* you!
Well, I can certainly see why you have no use for black bikinis anymore.

Rutger

Just for a moment, I thought you were intelligent. Unlike you, I do not make this site a shrine to my ego. Margot Morgan is not my ''real" name. I come in disguise. At this point, I 'm not sure what you're really interested in: my real identity or my body. Take your time and figure it out.

Rutger

I stumbled upon the book at a second hand book store.

But now I see you put all his work online (www.cornetsdegroot.com). Thanks.

Margot

There isn't much to figure out: your identity *is* your body. I realize this goes against your feminist assumptions but this is how it is I'm afraid. Maybe one day you will find a man who will appreciate you "for what you are" (another feminist prerequisite) but as long as you come in disguise in order to engage in sex, that is unlikely to happen. And when it does, there'll be no more boom boom for you. It's either/or.

@Noa
I'm not convinced that the lost art of keeping a secret can be generalised in the sense of the sexes. Some people can keep a secret, others can't. If you should insist on a generalisation, my bet would be on men though. Seeing that professionaly i have witnessed more women gossiping and telling the unmentionable than men.

@Margot
"The average man doesn't like to raise someone elses children. "
That certainly applies if the man was under the impression that it were his children but finds out many years later that it isn't the case. I can imagine a world falling to pieces.
So if such a thing should be kept a secret, it'd better be an airtight secret. Unfortunately, it rarely is.

Rutger

I come in disguise in order to engage in sex? Boy, you really wear me out.
If there´s any reason to come in disguise, other than the obvious protection of privacy , it is because unlike you , I want people to only appreciate what I write.
I don´t need this site to increase my level of self-importance. I come in disguise in order to feel free.
Anyway, since you are a man, I will let you have the last word. Thanks for giving me a wonderful title for my new novel. "I come in disguise to get undressed. "

Margot

What have you to hide? And, on what pretext are you talking to me? I don't think it's a coincidence that you and Noa both use noms de guerre. And here you are, pointing out my ego to me while your own ego is too big and too precious to even step into the scene. Freuds Es, or Id, or whatever the hell it's called, firmly oppressed by your Super Ego, which may then vent its feminist ideas online. That is your entire disguise. You think men find that attractive?

If this is all too difficult, or too "intelligent" for you, I'll sum it up--you're full of shit. Goodbye.

Rutger

You're such a gentleman.
I was just about to cycle to the Frederikstraat and buy you a drink.

@Rutger, no, you're wrong actually. I love men, or rather: having sex with men. I know bit's hard for you tov grasp that some women can be critical of the way men think and function without not wanting to have sex with them.
And pablo - if you were to believe the Bible, would you believe Mary truly was a virgin? I dare say this: Mary had sex with the neighbour and covered it up by saying she was visited by an angel. One of the best kept secrets of entire mankind. When it comes to women's own misdeameanours, they are much better at keeping those a secret than men. True, they are good at discussing/gossipping about other people's mishaps, but that does not mean to say they can't keep their own secrets to themselves (which they usually do - now go home and ask your wife if she's ever had sex with anyone else. She may well not be the Madonna (or Mary - parallel intended) you view her as being).

Noa

No, I grasp it. There are plenty women who love to have sex with men, and speak badly of them nonetheless. I would say this is the number 1 item of the black bikini movement charter: Feminism as a means to overcome the shame of actually enjoying your submissive position, both socially and sexually. As though we, men, have a choice.

@Rutger, I am not a feminist. In fact, more likely I am the feminist's worst nightmare. Number one - I don't make very much money at all. Number two - my husband does. Number three - we have a child who I love to spend time with. Number four - I like to get my nails done when I'm not spending time writing or with my child or obsessively checking this blog. Number five - i died my hair blonde and now it's back to brown but it could well become blonde again.
So please understand that simply not agreeing with you and counter-arguing your statements does not make me a feminist. As said before, I know this concept is hard to grasp for you.

Dear Noa

Please don't go all biblical on me, I come in peace and mean no harm. I'm just saying that I don't like generalisations when it comes to comparing the sexes. There are but a few (if any) valid ones. I guess that's why I don't like feminism (which I don't accuse you of, but still...). Feminists take a supposed 'good' quality, then narrow it down to themselves and then project it on all women. That's fine with me, but it's certainly not reality.

An female ex-colleague of mine could keep a secret so much that put her affair with another colleage on a website forum. Turns out that mucho other colleages read the same forum and recognised her, since she didn't refrain from leaving out very detailed descriptions. Aye caramba! On the other hand: her husband probably still doesn't know about it, so in that sense she did manage quite well.

Again: this is all fine by me, I think no less of that girl. I am far passed the fable of the virgin mary and prefer being loved by a one who may or may not have the need for multiple partners to the icecold longing for one that keeps you hanging on and on and on and on and on and so on. One of the worst kinds of loneliness is the loneliness bared inside a relationship. Oh well, I'm telling you too much, and you'll probably use it against me anyway (thank god for nicknames).

But, as I said earlier, I can thus imagine that a secret can take such a proportion that it no longer is something to be proud of that one is able to keep it.

@Pablo and Rutger

@Pablo, good evening. Well then we in fact agree, I also hate generalizations, this is exactly what I've been trying to make clear. And I don't like many '...isms' either, such as feminism. You sound sincere, and so I apologize for my cynical comment regarding the adultery-thing and wife. As for the adulterous female, I suppose we should let the topic rest, it's not really all that interesting anyway. Why do you say I'd probably use what you're saying against you? Don't judge me solely on the basis of me trying to analyze the workings of this site in light of the strange fact that someone such as Rutger can rant and rave and be an aggressive vindictious asshole, yet within weeks rize to almost priestly intellectual status and even be called 'sensitive'. Perhaps this site simply reflects life itself then.

Ok, no offense taken, it only lead me to believe that you were out to skin me on this one; an assumption I shouldn't have made, since I seem to have misjudged you.