2008/07/08 New York
Bitterness
Player
For a couple of days I was looking for a good excuse to quote these lines from Coward’s “I Am No Good at Love” – I found the quote in the Times of July 1:
“For I feel the misery of the end
In the moment that it begins,
And the bitterness of the last goodbye
Is the bitterness that wins.”
A friend asked me if I was a player.
The only possible honest answer was no.
But the question forced me to think about the attractiveness of the player. I guess he has incorporated the bitterness of the last goodbye, he has bet on that bitterness. If that bitterness wins, he wins.
[ Add comment ]
21 comments 
Arnon, nice quote, but the rest of the entry puzzles me. I would think that the player causes bitterness with the last goodbye in stead of experiencing it. Or do you mean that he gets satisfaction from causing that bitterness? But how does this bitterness contribute to his attractiveness?
Even before the beginning (of a love affair) I had already experienced the bitterness of the end. Now the bitterness of the end is incorporated, but I do not bet on it. I try to take it as it comes. (But I experienced too that some people hate that kind of acceptance , they just want to see you suffer eternally).
@ Jan
It's about wanting to be missed and wanted, of course. A lover that remains calm and stoïcal is often interpreted as not caring, which is iconsidered a plus before the beginning, but never after. A player always stays calm and stoïcal.
It's about wanting to be missed and wanted, of course. A lover that remains calm and stoïcal is often interpreted as not caring, which is iconsidered a plus before the beginning, but never after. A player always stays calm and stoïcal.
Ron
The attraction of the player is that he enjoys bitterness with impunity. Not only the bitterness of other people, also his own bitterness.Maybe I was too much thinking of what Camus wrote about Don Juan.
Maybe the contemporary player is not so much of a literary type and is mainly interested in getting laid, instead of the bitterness that might come after.
@Pablo
Indeed, but I first learned to stay calm only when the (love) affair ended, because tears and mourning did not help. And indeed I was punished even more because of that behaviour. Some people do not grant you any relief, some people are very dangerous. (We learn the most by personal experience - experience by others in words and writings provide help & acceptance too).
But I am not sure if Arnon’s quote is about that kind of feeling.
Indeed, but I first learned to stay calm only when the (love) affair ended, because tears and mourning did not help. And indeed I was punished even more because of that behaviour. Some people do not grant you any relief, some people are very dangerous. (We learn the most by personal experience - experience by others in words and writings provide help & acceptance too).
But I am not sure if Arnon’s quote is about that kind of feeling.
@Arnon
I would not use the word “enjoy’ the bitterness”, I would more opt for a kind of ‘acceptance of the bitterness’, the inevitable shadow of a (joyful) subject. Like old age is the shadow of youth.
I would not use the word “enjoy’ the bitterness”, I would more opt for a kind of ‘acceptance of the bitterness’, the inevitable shadow of a (joyful) subject. Like old age is the shadow of youth.
Arnon
Women can be players too.Margot
Are you a player?Arnon :
Do you think disillusionment is immoral?
Do you think disillusionment is immoral?
Margot
I know. Unfortunately society has less tolerance for the female player than for the male one -- an injustice that ought to be changed.Teresa
No, not necessarily. Why?Arnon
You wrote that the player enjoys bitterness with impunity – maybe I just didn’t understand your entry.Teresa
He is not being punished for his bitterness.How does this statement lead to your observation that disillusionment is immoral?
Oscar
It's beyond my control.Margot
Please.Teresa
By the way, have we ever met?Arnon
Since you mentioned impunity, I wondered whether you thought the player’s disillusionment is immoral.No, we have never met.
Teresa
He is nog being punished for his bitterness - that's what I meant to say. The bitterniss is not punishment.I recommend reading Camus on Don Juan in The Myth Of Sisyphus.
There you can also find the famous citation that only unfulfilled love can be eternal.
Bitterness is not the same as disillusionment.
On Camus
Here I found something useful (I did not read The Myth of Sisyphys by Camus, yet)http://www.sparknotes.com/philosophy/sisyphus/section5.rhtml
Jan T
This summarization is fairly accurate but there are some important omissions.At the end of the chapter on Don Juan Camus writes that he imagines an old Don Juan in a monastery in Spain and if he (Don Juan) looks through one of the loopholes, Camus writes; he doesn’t see the ghosts of his former mistresses, he sees the silent plain. In other words even he didn’t manage to escape melancholy at the end.
@Arnon,
In other words, he sees the silent empty plains and what does he think? Game over now? Forever? (Last week I bought La Peste, in a bargain).
In other words, he sees the silent empty plains and what does he think? Game over now? Forever? (Last week I bought La Peste, in a bargain).
[ Add comment ]
