Arnon

Have you seen Mr Bardem in Pedro Almodóvar's "Carne trémula"?

Oscar Wilde

No, should I?

I was somewhat surprised to hear how many women thought Bardem was very sexy in "No country for old men", where he plays basically a socially dysfunctional, sadistical weirdo with a kind of repulsive haircut.

To me it looks as if the Americans have kinkier sex than Europeans whereas it is believed that europeans are the wildest species on earth. Of course we must acknowledge the influence of american pr0n.

I didn't know people could be obvious. Would that be like being predictable?

Dens
The influence of american pr0nunciation?

@Arnon. Why is it the men out there are more interested in trying to understand Bardem's appeal than Johanson's? What do you think of her?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/20/movies/20woody.html?_r=1&ref=arts&oref=slogin

I try to avoid talking to a woman I desire because I'm afraid that the simple fact of starting a conversation can be considerd obvious. I've tried for years to overcome this, but I can't figure out how to do it. The feeling of not even having tried is one of the most stinging there exist.

@noa
i would never start a conversation with johanson, that's for sure.

Dear Dens

"Why are you so interested in me (...) ?
said Dens Powells 19/08/2008 17:35

Who woud not be interested in you:
you think dying movie-stars are great fun to watch, although your experience never came further then dying news-reporters on television,
you think it’s easy to juggle with dead people, certainly when they are famous
you prefer your sex-partners to be very fresh and vibrant
you know a lot about the top of a penis
you have a weakness for charismatic dictators whose words you believe make sense
and you like to watch porn
we must acknowledge the influence of american pr0n, you tell us
you always have sex on your first date, but it's less kinkier than if you would be an American
you like to measure your penis from top to bottom
you like women to give you a blow-job but you don’t like blow-jobs on your average penis
but then again you are very good in googling
and on top of your mind your a big fan of licking pussy’s. Big Fan.

Dens I'm a big fan of you. Big Fan!

yours,

Eric

Arnon

And the American men? Should they try the European female artists for pleasure? Should I send my curriculum vitae to Allen?

Arnon

After all, you know my type!

For some reason I like Javier Bardem a lot. Recently I was watching Goya's Ghosts. In that movie he is very credible as Brother Lorenzo, the man fighting against the sin that he believes to see everywhere. He wants to burn heretics and eventually becomes one himself. No one could have played it better or sexier than Bardem.

@Eric
The way you described Dens..
I'm seriously considering to meet him.

Oke, Eric. Let's consider it an authorized biography.

@Dries

I believe that being social dysfunctional, being the owner of a repulsive haircut or being sadistical does not have necessarily anything to do with being sexy.
This of course can be known as one of the causes of secret relationships like in which women are keeping ugly men in their bassments just for watching or touching them now and than in order to feel like a woman.

Hannah

I knew it! You've got no secrets for me, women.

@Pablo, as mentioned before - let's have dinner sometime (in case newcomers Liesje or Eric wonder whether I'm looking for a date - no - this offer is embedded in a historical conversation about eating alone). You'll see, you'll be fine (did you watch the film Iris on tv last night by any chance?).
By the way, this community is starting to look like a NVSH meeting. We study and discuss eachothers' genitals after which group leader Eric summarizes who we are.

PS Pablo, not that I think you desire me, it's just I was hoping to show you how easy it is to speak to a desirable woman by putting this to practice (and talking to, for example, a cute waitress). Please note that I say this even when speaking by no means a comes naturally to me. Please also note that should we meet after 27th Aug and you don't notice a thing about my speech, well then: I have my doctor to thank for that.

Noa

The two women in the movie were not very interesting, probably they were not meant to be very interesting.
And yes I read the review in the Times.

@Arnon - I merely added the link to the review in the Times because the reviewer was a man too, and more interested in Bardem's sex appeal than Johansson's. I wasn't trying to be pretentious.

Dear Monica

you said:
"The way you described Dens..
I'm seriously considering to meet him."

And what is it that makes you doubt?

Eric

Dear Eric

What scares me is the 'having sex on a first date' part.

Noa

Manohla Dargis who reviewed the latest Woody Allen in the NY Times is for all we know a woman.

@Arnon, the link I sent you was an article written by Stehen Holden.

Noa

Mr. Holden’s article is not that different from the review by Manohla Dargis. What was the point again you were making about men, women and Javier Bardem?

@Arnon - you know the point I was trying to make, but there's no point in my trying to explain that point as you obviously feel like putting me down rather than react to the point. I'd much rather you simply tell me what I did to annoy you, than have to endure such cynical retaliation. But this is your website, of course.

@Noa
Maybe it is not because of something you did (to Arnon). Maybe it is simply because you are available, available to the real grand game, like the all rest of us, Arnon included.

Dear Monica,

As I know Dens, I don’t think he’s the kind of guy that would force you in to something (or anything), even if he likes dictators.
But, given his record, he must be seductive, very seductive.
So you may ask yourself if you want to be seduced or if you don’t want to have sex on a first date ever.
And are you then strong enough to refuse an alluring guy like Dens (which you shouldn’t underestimate).

yours,

Eric

Noa

Please, calm down.

Margot

If you still want to go to the Secret Reading, please contact whoever we're supposed to contact (that would be Johannes right?) so he can make arrangements for you to take my place.

Margot

You see what I do for you?
Isn't this a proof of love?

Noa

If you take Arnon's answers so to heart, I understand why you discribe your
artwork as Risqué. But don't look for retaliation where was, in my opinion , only (mild) honesty.

Arnon

Mr Bardem's perfomance in "Carne trémula" is outstanding. I also consider this one of Mr Almodóvar's best movies.

Arnon

Javier Bardem is incredibly attractive in the latest Woody Allen movie, an opinion shared by absolutely every woman that I discussed the movie with this week. That being said, I thought that the Bardem character was just as much a cliche as any of the three female characters were cliches. Not meant in a bad way, because I thought they were very recognizable and ofte funny cliches and I loved the movie. But just out of interest (and not jumping at a perceived mysogynistic comment this time); why did you find the Bardem character more interesting?
He may or may not have been a struggling artist (with a very nice house), he didn't seem to be struggling with a lot of life questions. He knew his appeal with the ladies and he was enjoying himself to the fullest; ok.
The question the ladies were struggling with (=do I go for the "wild" guy, sexually very attractive but inevitably lacking in the reliability/ availability department, or is settling with a nice guy who is really into you but somehow never as sexy the wiser thing to do?) is a very real one for many women. I don't know why, but men don't have to deal with that. Maybe because in women there is no correlation between sexual attractiveness and overall reliability. That doesn't make it a less interesting dilemma!
In any case: I think Woody Allen brought out that dilemma quite well, and without implying that it's all about the long run. Didn't he leave it open who took the right approach or if there even is a right approach? What I thought I read between the lines was that his sympathy was with the Scarlett Johanson character and not with Ms Long Run (Mrs Long Run at the end of the movie)....

Eva

For some men there's a similiar 'dillema' I guess.
Your comment however gives me the impression you should grow up.

Noa

If you'd like to quit your seat at the Secret Reading I'd be more than happy to take it!

@Noa
You're a darling for inviting me.
I didn't see the film Iris on tv, was it about someone who doesn't like to eat out alone?

@Mieke

Uh, now you too have started twisting my words.
Look people, before I end up becoming some writer who loves to hang around parties describing my own work as "ah, oh so risqué" at least READ WHAT I SAID.
Mieke - I will say it one more time for you: I said that for me the writing PROCESS is risqué (and I used the wrong word by the way), I never said my WORK is risqué. Did we get that clear once and for all?

Noa

I like writers who love to hang around parties describing their work as 'Ah, oh so risqué'.

@Klaas-Jan, I'm sorry but I just promised my seat to Margot. If she contacts Johannes and says she wants to take my place, then it's hers. To be honest I'm not sure I could even face any co-commentator whose dick-size I know.

@Noa
Can I consider it for a while and then maybe send you an e-mail?

@Noa
Please do not make a fuzz about dicks. Image there were Willy Warmers in cup size A, B, C, …

@Pablo, yes.

Noa

Okido, point taken. I'll just be next in line on the waitlnglist.

Noa

For me the word 'artwork' - in it there is the word 'work'- explicitly refers to the process , otherwise I would have used the discription 'work of art' if I meant the result. I chose that word because of the other word it containes: 'Art'. I am aware though that those words are usually used to describe the visual arts.

Noa - Arnon

What makes you so sure I still check this website?

Noa

Are you serious? Thank you!
PS. I have nothing to wear.

Arnon

Sweetface.

Margot

I know you love me.
If you have nothing to wear Johannes will buy a dress for you.

Noa

Could you please refrain from speaking about the "writing process" -- at least on this site.

Eva

The movie is about clichés and if the movie is funny it’s precisely because of this. Woody Allen tried to be satirical, at least that’s what I hope he did -- the characters are never more than semi-plausible (to borrow from Anthony Lane’s dictionary) – sometimes even less than semi. But it does not matter.
Mr. Bardem is just a better actor than Scarlet Johansson or Rebecca Hall.
Now about the question that is a very real one for women, as you said: do I go for the wild, sexy guy or the reliable and boring investment banker.
First: These days women tend to be financially independent. What does reliability mean in this context? That he will be a good father? That he won’t cheat? That he works day and night to pay for good education and babysitters?
I’m not at all convinced that the hard choice between the sexiness of the bohemian versus the reliability of the boring but dull eh dentist is a real one.
Please don’t forget the social pressure. These women just want to pick a man who will please their parents, who will be accepted by their girlfriends. Fooling around is accepted for women but not the path to long-term happiness, that’s the message of our popular culture, and it might even be the message of this particular movie.
If you struggled or are still struggling with this hard choice between a sexy but unreliable painter and a sweet copy editor feel free to contact me for coffee. I think I can help you.
As Michel Houellebecq said: “Don’t be afraid of happiness. It does not exist.”
I add: “Don’t be afraid of social pressure. You are a laughingstock anyhow.”
And as you might know my life is one big helping hand.

Oscar

What's the English title of the movie?

Arnon

Thank you, I will let Johannes know what size I wear.
PS. I'm sorry I called you short.

Margot

You definitely need to think about Arnon's offer to let me buy a dress for you. Those jeans you wore when we met were awful.

I must say I'm quite sane as well.

Officially I'm declared insane. I do think they have a point.

Arnon

The English title of the movie is "Live Flesh".

Oscar

I think I saw the movie, isn't there a scene in wich men in wheelchairs play basket ball?

Margot

Tall can be sexy. I never kissed a giant before.

Arnon

Yes! In fact, I had wanted to mention in particular that in this movie, Mr Bardem is very convincing as a man in a wheelchair playing basketball.

Arnon

I appreciate you buying a dress for Margot. A very nice gesture, one that brings tears to my eyes.

Johannes

If trying to hurt me by commenting on my clothes will make you feel good, please go ahead. This remark says a lot more about you than me.
The more you hate me, the more I love myself.

Arnon

I'll bring a chair.

PS Noa

I owe you, right? Please let me know what you would like in return.

Margot

One of my friends said I should become more honest with women, so this was a step in that direction. I'm glad you are convinced that you have taste in clothes, which is a good thing.
But let's get to business. What amount are you planning to spend?

Margot

Hatred is not the opposite of love. As we all know.

Johannes

I never plan to spend a certain amount. I just like a dress or I don't.
Since we live in the same city here is what I suggest we'd do.
On the Denneweg, next to the Italian coffee bar Lusso, there is a great shop which sells dresses that I really love. It’s called Lien and Giel.
http://www.nlstreets.nl/NL/shop.php?stadID=5&straatID=6&blokID=155&shopID=1116a
Please go there next week and pick three dresses that you like (and that you think will look good on me.)
I will then choose one from those you have picked.
Size 36. (Well, okay, sometimes 38. )
You can tell the lady they are for Margot Morgan.
I trust your taste.

Johannes

Didn't I say that I would pay for the dress? She doesn't have to get designer clothes. Just something decent, preferably not black, make it a summer dress.
Now I know that a female giant is desperately in love with me the least I can do is to bring some eternal summer into her life.

Arnon

I know. It's a frustrated version of love.

Arnon

Are you in love?

Arnon

You are too kind. I thought I was quite good at hiding my despair; how long have you known that I am in love with you?
Lien and Giel does not sell designer clothes, one dress equals about the price of three-course dinner. Of course I'm open to any other fashion advice from Johannes or from your side.

Margot, Johannes, Arnon

I don't know when the Secret Service is going to be held, but I think Margot is trying to lure Johannes into a vicious trap by asking him to go to the Denneweg. Right now, it is not the exclusive parading passage that attracts the likes of Princess Maxima or Louis Couperus lookalikes. There is some heavy construction work going on, and the place is like an open sewer. Johannes might find himself buried to his middle in a mixture of sand, shit, and piss if he goes there. I should know because I was born there, and still run a tab in Cafe 2005.

Arnon

I know, but since Margot's taste in clothes didn't seem to be in synch with what I find suitable for her I would have left open the option for her to buy a dress and send the bill.
As I said to Rutger, there's nothing worse than an unsatisfied customer.
Now I read she takes my fashion advice to heart. Very good choice if I may say so myself.

Margot

Since I realized that you are a giant. Are your parents giants as well? Please bring pictures to the secret reading.
Is it difficult for a female giant to find a daytime job?

Margot

I must say you surprise me.
That shop seems to sell decent summer dresses.
The funny thing is I just walked through the Denneweg and I think I saw it.
The clothes you wore when me met were maybe just an exception, who knows.

Johannes

What kind of taste does Margot have? A preference for jeans and black bikinis can hardly be described as a taste. It's more an understandable desire to be as invisible as possible. Are there other things a female giant in love might need?

WRITING PROCESS WRITING PROCESS WRITING PROCESS WRITING PROCESS. So there.
@Margot: you owe me the dress as ultimately it was me you have to thank for it.

Rutger

Thanks.
I know about the construction work, but the chance is small I get killed.
After I've done some shopping I will check out Café 2005. Never been there.

Arnon

A Barry White album maybe?

@Rutger, I knew I knew you. 2005. You must know the German Lubenau's (sometimes also known as Poelman), the Italian S. Bruti and the Donkersloot twins, maybe even Visser?

Noa

Sergio Bruti, and Visser, the gym guy? George Gertenaar, also?
Were you smoking pot in the Juke Box?

Arnon

They are quite tall but I would not call them giants.
It’s not difficult for me to find a job since my looks are intimidating. It seems to be the reason why they hire me.
PS. Flat shoes?

Johannes

I’m glad you approve my taste.
I wear jeans during my time off because the office makes me wear suits.
Most of the dresses at that shop are good, especially the multi-coloured ones. Nothing strapless though.
PS. Did you not like the pink furry coat I wore when we met?

Noa

I understand but I don't think we share the same size.

Margot

Check your e-mail, I've got a fabulous dress for you.
The nice girl at the shop showed me various dresses, but the other ones were mediocre.

Rutger/Noa, before the shopping I visited Café 2005. It was a bit empty, which I don't mind at all, but it must have had better days. The toilets were clean. I didn't meet the Italian guy named Sergio Bruti and the Donkersloot twins so I will be back for sure.

I like the words: "laugh hard"!

Johannes

A bit empty? With the street open, resembling a trench from the First World War? I am not surprised. I am glad though you will be giving it another try. There is nothing worse than an unhappy customer.

Margot

So you are the only giant in the family? High heels please, I like to feel dwarfed standing next to you.

@Margot, @Rutger, @Johannes

@Margot - you're right, you said you were a 36? This is indeed a little ambitious for me.
@Johannes - Sandro Bruti (not Sergio). If you see him, tell him the girl he saved from the axe says hello. As coincidental as this may seem, this is in fact a true story. Add the words Mini-Cooper and he might tell you what happened.

Noa

You're right, it's Sandro. Small beard, short but strong, seemed very congenial but I never could figure out if he was for real.
And Visser--blond guy, who owned a suntan studio, not a gym.
Both used to hang out with a group of friends in the Juke Box, a place around the block, to smoke pot.
The other people you mention I don't recall.

I tended the bar in 2005 between 1991-1997. I would say you'd be drinking sweet white wine. Am I correct?

Johannes

I hope we agree on what is fabulous and mediocre.

Arnon

High heels it is. If you want me to introduce you to my family, this can be arranged.
They'll be looking forward to looking down on you.

Noa

If it doesn't fit there's a few weeks left to lose or gain weight.

Margot

Do you have siblings?

@Rutger

Yes, I know the Juke Box (well). I'm not sure what Visser does these days, he could well own a gym as he was a 2mr. tall high school drop-out, water-polo player. He was my beau for 7 years. I think if you put 2 & 2 together this will answer your question whether you would have found me sipping wine. I have changed. Most of the time, I like the old me better.

ps Rutger - Coebergh and Apfel Korn (I know, I know, I hate to admit: even Malibu).

@Margot, size 36? In my dreams.

Arnon

Two brothers. I'm the youngest and the only girl.

Margot

Please bring pictures of you and your family to the reading.