Let me guess. You won the bowling game. The women let you win it ,out of sheer courtesy.

Я сошла с ума, о мальчик странный,
В среду, в три часа!
Уколола палец безымянный
Мне звенящая оса.

Sweet Yasha

Feel lecherous, be lecherous, act lecherous.
F*ck deadlines, only the real act will set you free.
Be a man, I know that you can.
Love, Helena.

Приветствия !

L.S.

Could you provide a translation of your message? Highly appreciated.

Just wait till you see them without make-up...

Hihi

Arnon

do you prefer the left 'one' or the right 'one'?

I guess liking (red) lipstick is mandatory, pff it seems like a lot of work finding a bride

Dear Arnon,

It's a bit free translation...

I’ve lost my mind, strange boy
On wensday at 3 o’clock
My ring finger was pricked
By singing wasp.

It's Russian poet Anna Akhmatova .

Odesk woman

Looks like a nice evening; and the dilemma is quiet harsh.
Sex or a deadline? Why... doesn't sex creates deadline's, such as in: life?
But these woman, i call them "Odesk" woman, look lovely.

And if i had to choose between a deadline or a threesome....
wouldn't have hessitated one second!

privat

I love life!

beautifull girls)

Deadline

beautiful girls)))))))))

I seem to be the only one who fails to understand Arnon Grunberg's motivations of visiting Ukraine.
Would anyone care to clarify one and another?

Thank you.

Pjötr

He was looking for a bride.

And buying a gun.

Behind every strong man stands a strong(er) woman. But since these women fluctuate once in a while, who is this woman? Is it your mother or is it an idea, a woman to be? It could, of course, also be M.

Margot

You are so jealous.

L.S.

I have read some of Akhmatova's poem.
Where do you live if I may ask?

Pjötr

I'm on a mission here.

Arnon

Your 72 hours have past. Did you choose a bride yet? Are you now officialy engaged? If you are, my sincere congratulations.

Elaine has passed away for a considerable amount of time now. It's time for you to move on.

To Arnon

You are a writer. I count myself among your readers. Could you give me directions on where I can find out more about this endeavour through reading?

This in order not to pervert our relationship.

(Perhaps it is wise to remark that I am not a psychoanalyst, and therefor could have used 'perversion' in unintended ambiguity

You never answered my other question that I asked in the same line of thought as above: do you plan to publish on violence and language in the near future? Or do you consider all your writing to be understood as 'eine Forshung' of both violence and language.

Dear Arnon,

At the moment I live in the Netherlands.
Nice, that you read some of Achmatova's work.

To Arnon and anybody else with a European citizenship, men and women alike

If you are willing to sign a notary document where you promise never to touch me, I am willing to marry you. I can make a use of a Dutch passport.

Pjötr

I plan to write about my endeavour in Ukraine in the near future. You must understand that there are practical reasons why I haven't announced my intentions about writing about this trip yet.
My book "Chambermaids and soldiers" will be published in February. This books deals (among other things) with violence, both verbal and nonverbal. Did this answer your question?

@Arnon

(yes it's me, but I decided to take your kicking Noa out literally. Don't worry, you'll find I'm much friendlier than she is.)
Are we to understand from your comment to Pjotr that you haven't told these women your true intentions? In the very least, I hope you pay them for their stories, or give them a cut of the money you make from their stories.
And - if I may - that sweater on the next picture isn't very flattering. Maybe you could make a the same effort they're making to look good, it's what I would call gentlemanly, perhaps even respectful.

Hallelujah Aliefka!

Finally you understood.

Afliefka, Arnon

Very nice you're back Aliefka!

About Arnon's sweater: A man who wears a fur coat made out of beavers (or in general wears a fur coat) doesn't have anny tast in clothing.
I saw a couple of times pictures, and i believe Arnon believes he is a sort of dandy, and in a way he is, but he has to go further than Etro sweaters or modern trousers.

@ Arnon,

I will give you free clothing advice, you have to spend a lot, but you will be the man of your own dreams.

Oh my dear me, I didn't intend to open a door for personal dressers with explicit tastes. So please know, I do like the sweater in the above picture.

Aliefka

First you don't now you do like the sweater...

Aliefka

Arnon's use of people is instrumental. For example take Sander's photo in his sleep. I don't know if Arnon asked Sander's permission to upload this photo. Sander in his turn already dehumanized himself by naming himself a schnitzel. So what does Sander get in return? - The opportunity to unite with something that is bigger than himself – Arnon. Take for example Sander's comment on undesirable participants: "It has nothing to do with a policy although I must agree that it might be a nice alternative to banning users, in case we ever have to". I am positively sure that people who come to visit Arnon's site don't do it because of Sander. Is Sander being paid? Whose blog is it?
Manon's irritation with our discussion and her attempt to move us away have also to do with Arnon's appropriation, not to mention Ilanit, who's in charge of the purpose of this blog.
Arnon's fascination with Salò or the 120 Days of Sodom is only an extreme example of this not only the most prominent leitmotif of his writings, but also the dynamics played within the blog and those of which Arnon reports about publicly.
I prefer to stop at this point.
By the way, your inconsistency has turned into consistency. Congratulations!

Aliefka

Dear Aliefka,

My close reading skills are less than zero.
I apologize for my ‘slordigheid’ about Arnon
Grunberg’s sweater.

David

Neria

I'd rather you leave my relationship with Arnon out of your flawed reason. I call myself a schitnzel to anybody who wants to hear.

I would sign a contract to never touch you if you'd sign a contract to keep your mouth shut.

Sander

Is this a threat? It is really far from being funny.
I don't know if you are capable of making the connection between Ukranian women who wish to improve their lot by acquiring a European citizenship through marriages and their "willingness" to objectify themselves for the cause. I think that Arnon explores the many forms of objectification, also by experience.
If you find my comments insufferable you can either ask Arnon to delete them, block me or simply avoid reading them in the first place.

To Arnon

Yes you did. Thank you for taking the time.

The sweater looks more like Missoni.

Teresa

Yes it does, but Arnon is more an Etro man.

Neria, o Neria

You've got such a long toes. That would make a nice addition to the contract; you pay for your own shoes.

If you have anything to say about Arnons choices of subject, please address him, but leave me out of it. You can fight objectivication as much as you like, but I'll still call myself a schnitzel. In fact, if you'd like I'll send you a nice photo of myself (they exist too) wearing a t-shirt with 'Schnitzel' printed on it. Let's see if you still don't want me to touch you...

Dear Sander,

I was addressing Aliefka because suddenly she expressed dissatisfaction with the fact that Arnon might have decieved those women. For a moment I thought she managed to see something she was blind to for a long time, but her quick retreat from her own observation about the hideous sweater made me think she didn't after all. In a very short time she made at least two people believe in what she wrote, only to find out later that they where decieved. When it comes to Aliefka this has become a tradition. She says one thing and then one should expect for the quick evaporation of its meaning.
It is your own problem if you read comments that are addressed to others. I don't recall ever discussing Arnon's subjects (or better say objects) with you. You are welcome to correct me if I'm wrong.

@Neria

It seems you're mixing up quite a few things, stirring them together and creating your own cocktail, one - it sould seem - only you can appreciate the taste of. I never claimed I am a consistent human being and I don't desire to be, for the mere reason that it is humanly impossible to be consistent. In fact, I married a Ukranian woman myself, then we divorced after which she herself chose to live in the red light district of Amsterdam. We are still good friends.
That does not mean one does not have the right to address certain issues. I recently read to someone the following passage in a book I was reading: " "A lover of his kind, a hatred of his kindred," Edmund Burke said of Jean-Jacques Rousseau who handed each of the five children he fathered to an orphanage."
Besides, I find it quite unpleasant you should use my questions to Arnon as a stepping plate for you own message to the world/Arnon. May I ask you to do the honorable thing which is to please just address him or the world directly, say whatever it is what you want to say clearly, without trying to use others as a shield. For that too, my lady, is extremely disrespectful.

Oh and as for the sweater, Neria, read again and you will notice I expressed my dislike of the stripy grey one he was wearing in the next picture. The above, orange one, is fine. No inconsistencies there. Now please, do not further abuse or slander my name.

Aliefka

Sweet Aliefka. Thank God that you keep commenting.
About Arnon's sweaters. Personally I think that Arnon only should wear sweaters.
Suits don't become him very well.

Aliefka

The blog is public. You are exposing your messages to everybody's eye even if you direct them personally to Arnon, take responsibility on that. I pity you for having this option only to communicate with Arnon rathrer than having a more intimate rout to communicate with him.
I will not count the many times where you responded to comments which were not addressed to you specifically ,but at least, if you are capable of it, do not preach me to do something you cannot.
I don't feel I abuse your name, and when I address you I address you. I could not care less if others read or do not read my comments. Including you. So you can adopt the same recommendation I gave Sander about simply ignoring my comments if they are too much for you. I do not manipulate your answers, i'm citing them and if you don't feel comfortable with your reflection try to correct it. As to whether it is human or not to be consistent, we simply don't share the same views. Moreover, in certain areas I even find inconsistency to be immoral or even abussive. I hope to be consistent with my children for example.
I meant the stripy pullover. Although I find the puke-color-sweater ugly as well.

Aliefka

Prove to be respectful and I'll respect you. I'm not into empty politeness even when it's fashionable.

Neria

Apparently you can't take a hint. It is getting tiresome that I have to spend three comments to make you understand that what you did is not only disrespectful but also slander.

On this public blog, as you acknowledge, you posted a comment where you wrongly described my relationship with Arnon as abusive and disrespectful. It doesn't matter who you address, when you are spreading lies in public I have the moral obligation to correct you. As I've tried to make clear, you know nothing about the relationship between me and Arnon and all you wrote about it is false. I could not wish for a better friend.

So now I expect nothing but a big and full apology to me -and- Arnon. If you won't I'll rather not you see you around here anymore, spreading your poisonous lies and flawed logic.

Sander,

All I know is all I read. I didn't invent a thing. One is free to interpret the same information differently. I did not put words in your mouth. I did not upload your photo and accused Arnon for doing it. I did not pretend to know what goes between you two out of the blog. It's all here.
I understand that the way I interpret this information is not the way you interpret it, which is ok , we don't have to agree on everything.
I am not willing to shut my mouth or my mind just because you don't like the kind of impression the information left on this blog has left on me, nor am I ever going to apologize for having my own thoughts.
If anyone is lying here it's you, for accusing me of lying. But I do not expect your apology because I understand you're too upset to think clearly now. I wouldn't expect your apology even if you were calm because I don't expect for anything from you punto.

Neria

Pretending an insinuation can't be a lie is not a form of apology.

Sander,

I don't call facts insinuations. I wasn't insinuating nor did I make an attempt to apologize. But if you understand my reply as such, there is nothing I can do about it.

Neria

Last words ever to you: grow up.

I like it when a woman pretends to have fun. At least it's much more interesting than pretending you're having an aweful time just to be perceived as "not easy". Woman should never play hard to get, because 'halfway during sex 'really is when you are both naked.

@Mieke

Overdue response. Thank you and I have been meaning to say you seem like a lovely person. I look forward to that 'beer in a bar' someday.

Neria

You say:" Arnon's use of people is instrumental."
This is what I would call a very absolute statement. Could you in the future build in some distance in your statements by adding f.e. I think, or I feel, or something from the kind. A little relativity would be nice.
In an intervieuw some years ago, Arnon stated that he likes to console people. I experienced myself that that wasn't an empty statement. Arnon comforted me in ways you can't propably imagine.This is a quality I don't think consistent with a man who's use of other people is merely instrumental.
His work too clearly is proof of an intelligent and highly sensitive man. Just read once more the end of Tirza.
I am certain Arnon treated those Russian girls with the utmost consideration.

@Neria

I've been thinking about you because I was taken aback by your anger at me. I must have disappointed you in some grave way.
If you want an honest explanation of my inconsistency regarding the sweater: I was (for various reasons) annoyed by the fact that david used my comment to vent his own personal insults about Arnon's style of dressing. Similarly, I did not like it when you did the same (but the about a different topic).
I did not come here ntending to open a firing squad at Arnon, merely I feel I should be allowed to question certain things that are questionable - and maybe have been purposefully portrayed as such - in the hope they are further explained, answered or argued. In that sense, my comment gives Arnon the opportunity to take do away with (or ridicule) the judgements he knows a lot of people are making, it was merely me who take the bait and took on the role. So perhaps what's making you angry is that I am simply not the kill-Arnon-female you'd like me to be.

ps Neria, please feel free to email me - mail@aliefka.com

Mieke,

I wasn't checking the blog because I have tons of things to do, I'm sorry for the late reply. I take your word for the console Arnon gave you, though I have the right to wonder how much of it you have fantasized and ascribed to him.
I understand you dislike my resolution, but it's in vain to try to soften it. Especially because I don't see why I am picked up as a target while others in this blog may be no less resolutive in their statement,s yet I've never saw you commenting on their style.

Aliefka

You are a dishonest person. The sweaters are only the last example.

Aliefka,

You tried to guess both what I am feeling towards you and its causes. You missed both. I do not feel any rage towards you. I had the chance to learn you over a long period and my conclusion, as I automatically responded firstly was that you are dishonest. That's all. Now that I know it I don't feel feel anything bacause you are not dissapointing me. I don't expect you to be anything but who you are.
As to a firing squad on Arnon, it's in your immagination. I wasn't firing Arnon, I was just pointing to the fact , right after you did, that in his blog he leaves the impression that his relations with people are instrumental. I didn't refer to anything that I don't know, to anything that happen outside this arena. You also accused me in speaking through you to Arnon. I can't do anything about your insecurities, if you don't believe you exist on your own behalf it's a problem, but not mine.

Mieke II

Last week I have visited my sister. At a certain moment I reffered to her as 'dumb'. My 4 years old niece couldn't stand that her mother is belittled (though her mother alas, is dumb from time to time). For the young girl it is a real threat to have a dumb mother because her life dependsns on the latter. One should keep in mind that supposedly grown up people will not have to defend the image of a person whome their life are not dependant on him/her. This doesn't happen here in this blog because there are quite few commentators who are not grown up and need to relate to Arnon in order to feel secure. At the same time, I believe, Arnon needs the dependency on him because he too cannot stand to live without believing his own fictive image of a savior. The dependency is mutual. If you neverthelss feel that tis relation cultivates your growth and independence then it is wonderful :)

@Neria

In the past three days or so you have called me:
-blind
-inconsistent
-incapable of taking responsibility over my actions
-pitiful (or pathetic)
-a preacher
-unworthy of respect
-dishonest
-insecure
Well, that certainly sums me up.
Have you, in turn, ever wondered what names people could call you?
To think, I even inquired with Sander whether I could find you somewhere, because I was worried about you. Goodness, how naieve (or, if you like, ignorant) of me. Please leave the rest of this blog out of further venom you have for me and pour it into a email directly to me if you must.

Aliefka

It makes me wonder too. It is a lot of bad mouth for a girl with such a sweet picture on her Linked-In profile.

Aliefka,

I supported each of them. Do you want me to go all over it again in further detail? I'm not venomous, I'm putting a mirror in front of you. If you are horrofied of what you get to see then I hope you'll find ways to solve it. Further, I can't understand what made you suddenly worry about me, even with my brilliant mind I can't see the logic in it. Probably because there isn't any.
I am reffereing to your comments here on the blog only. This is becoming more and more pathetic of you to try to divert my observations about you elsewhere. You simply don't understand that you're not so significant as an individual. I was trying to show a repeated pattern. Sander too, didn't understand it. I had to use names to concretize it, I thought that you won't understan what I'm talking about without brining any examples, so I brought some. I was surprised at the intense emotional uproar it caused, but remembering my old shock I have some sympathies. I didn't mean to hurt. It only looks very unhealthy. Now I know that telling someone that he/she is sick, without having any idea of thier ability to do anything about it is just causing distress and doesn't quicken any healing. I hope to remember that in the future.
You can read my replies to Mieke, you might undersand me better. I still think you're dishonest, but you are so because you're so insecure (but since I try to memorise the conclusion from the first paragraph I will stop now).

Sander,

Photo removed, and I'm also very glad I removed in time contacts which it is none of your business to peer into their profiles. After Ilanit has probed into my Facebook profile I blocked it to the public. I can only be glad she doesn't know the address for my Hebrew blog, she would love it. Tons of incriminating material. The only person whom I ever invited to view my profile is Johaness, who helped me endlessly.
Find yourself better subjects to waste your time on.

Sander,

Grow up yourself, don't call me a girl, it makes you sound as stupid as Ilanit who is mentally still much more Romanian than an Israeli. Her referring in 'Miss' rather than Ms. was an attempt to belittle me because in her mentality the fact I am not married is a shameful state. Ilanit the quasi-feminist. Of course, this might be a second nature to you to call mature people boys and girls, it's in the same line as referring to yourself as schnitzel.

Neria

I hadn't realised yet I need Arnon to be a kind of 'uncle' to me. Thanks for your opinion. It made me laugh.

Neria

Seriously, I've read an article recently in wich the main characteristic of a psychopat was being described as :"His use of others is instrumental".This is what you say about Arnon. I know that Arnon has a very negative image -except for his writing skills-, but to me that feels as completely injust. That's when and why I react . If others attack him like that, I protest too.

Mieke,

I understand that it is your need to defend Arnon. Did you ever ask him if he needs your defence?

Mieke

Also, you seem to defend only those whom you need to comfort you. You're more economic than what I have imagined you to be.

Neria

When did you loose your capability to fight what you considered to be an injustice? That's normal human behaviour: a child defends its mother if it feels that injustice is being done to her.
But then, maybe my use of Arnon is just instrumental, or as you call it 'economical'.

Neria

"Arnon is a decent man." This statement, I consider it to be true, is based on
* over twenty years of mental contact.
* reading his oeuvre since the appearance of "De Joodse Messias". I have for the moment exactly thirty titles of Arnon in my possesion. His column in Humo, etc..
* reading this blog for over two years now.
* having met him in the flesh - being able to observe him- on several occasions.

Mieke honey,

If the impression I left on you is that I don't fight for what I find as injustice then maybe I grew cynical, very much by the help of this blog. Also, I'm a little bit frightened of your reverence and hope you don't direct it only to one preson. It might interfere with your sense of proportion (maybe this is not the exact word). Are there any other favorite writers whom you feel have influenced your thought?

Mieke,

Moreover, you might won't interpret my observations here on the blog as "a fight for justice", and I don't label myself a fighter, but I'm investing here time and thought in a non-economical way. This I do consider (maybe presumptuously) as an attempt to help. Antagonists, at times, are necessary. I do it reluctantly and with a sense of duty, which I might be better living without.

Neria

If you are the antagonist, then who exactly do you view would be the protagonist in this story?
Before you answer me, I think it courtesy to say though that your answers are proving to be helpful as I happened to be working on a story about a gril who suffers from borderline disorder.
Interestingly, my protagonist is convinced she's brilliant, and because she feels she is, she thinks she has a right to tell the entire world around her how stupid they are and pathetic. The beauty of the story is (if I may so say myself) that as a reader, you initially believe she is brilliant. Borderliners are know to manipulate even their therapists, hence the effect being: the reader is in fact being manipulated by her.
Slowly, in the course of the story, it is revealed that her life is not the way we thought it was, but it is in shambles. She has never been able to hold on to a job, a relationship or friendships, niether has she ever completed or executed any of the various brilliant ideas her mind concucted. The unwritten novel, the unfinished symphony, the unexecuted invention.
Then we find out she was abused, as a child. Something she told us herself, but we didn't put two and two together at the time. It's a very sad story.
In the case of the story I'm writing, protagonist and antagonist are one and the same person.

Neria

Don't worry. I still see this blog to be a wonderful virtual playground where nothing is for real and fiction reigns.

Mieke,

I'm glad you experience it this way.

Aliefka

I didn't read your comment yesterday bacause I was intimidate of its length, but now it's morning and the opening hours of my mind will begin only two hours from now, so I've read it. All I can say is that I wish you'll have a considerable amount of the intelligence, the charm and the zezt of your heroine because sometimes it is better not to accomplish anything than to accomplish yet another boring novel.

Neria

Besides, I still think that Coetzee is the better writer.

Mieke,

You just induced a loud laughter from me :)) (pardon my English). Coetzee is really wonderful, I've studied him for a long time. I find him very very interesting. I can't really be objective while compairing the two because I read them in two different languages, each has a totally different impact on me. I don't prefer Arnon on Coetzee or the other way around, they simply convey totally other oualities. I love many writers, the list is too long. Henry Roth is on top somewhere :)

Mieke

I thought about it just now, that one of the major differenves vetween Arnon and Cotzee is the scope of objectification. Arnon is a Jew it makes him more urban ( ;)) this is a joke), even if he writes on Nature his concern is people, and the focus is on objectification between people (not that I have read his entire oeuvre. With Coetzee it's both, objectification of people and Nature. Coetzee ecologism takes in concern both Earth and people. Perhaps because this division in the first place is artificial.

Neria

I agree with you that earth, nature plays a more prominent role in Coetzee's work, though in Arnon's work too there is a growing role performed by it.F.E. : the dirth in "our uncle", the desert in "Tirza".

Mieke,

I haven't read the last novel yet because it's not being sold here. But I felt that Arnon's use of Nature is romantic. The wind in Windhoek and the sandstorm in the desert, in TIRZA, are not important on their own as something critical that endangers Nature but rather a reflection of the narrator's state of mind. There is a difference. I think that Coetzee tells about both the human condition and Nature. Perhaps I'll change my mind after reading Onze Oom.

Neria

I don’t know if you know Arnon’s work at all, like Mieke i read everything, but from Blue Mondays til Our Oncle, the last three books i didn’t like so much, but..they are good, in their own way.
Comparing Grunberg and Coetzee is hilarious Neria, why? Coetzee is one of my favorite writers, but in a way, here and there a little ‘neat’ and ‘stiff’ some times, but the choice of words is unbeatable in my opinion.

Read ‘Hij en zijn man’ with an ‘answer’ from Arnon, i think this answer is one of the best things Arnon has written in years, it touches me much more than Tirza, or Our Uncle.

Who are you??

David,

If the whole essay is not online I can't read it. I didn't realize Arnon has written anything about Coetzee. I have read only four of AG's novels. I wasn't focusing on the word selection but rather on the different place Nature captures in the writings of both writers. Crassly I obsereved that for Coetzee Nature is the Other, whereas in the AG's novels I have read Nature is addressed at all, unless it reverberates human feelings (as in Romanticism). It was more clear to me that in Coetzee's writings Nature is objectified (as much as human beings are). In Arnon's writing only humans are objectified. Again, only in the four novels I have read.
I'm not a European so it is hard for me to come across AG's printed materials.
Who am I :)) Print my name in the blog's search box and you'll get plenty of fiery material :))
Aangenaam :)
N.

David,

I wasn't thinking of compairing between Arnon and Coetzee in the first place. It was a reaction to Mieke's comment on this blog :)

Neria

I believe –and read- that Arnon is a great admirerer of Coetzee’s work, he once said “Waiting for the Barbarians’ (Wachten op de Barbaren –Cossee en Ambo-) is his favorite book, or ‘the best book he read’
But compering the two is to much, you can’t compare them in my opinion, they have nothing to do with each other. (In my opinion)
Read ‘Silent extra’s’ (Figuranten) and Phantom pain (fantoompijn) De heilige Antonio and the ‘Marek’ books.
If you want, i can send you a copy by mail, i think i got one in PDF.

Aangenaam ;)

Mieke

I agree, but i myself think those 'nature' or 'sand' pieces are not so strong.

David,

I would appreciate very much if you'll email me the essay. I prefer not to leave my email address either here or on your blog. I'll have to bother Johannes for the millionth time and ask if he is prepared to forward your mail to me. Johannes, will you?

Neria

You can mail me at: davidpefko@gmail.com

My mail adress is no secret.

Neria, Johannes

One thing i don't get...shouldn't you ask first before you let Johannes 'forard' a mail adress?

Neria

that must be 'forward'

It's getting late for me.

David,

Thank you. I'll email you in a minute.
As to Johannes I basically asked both in the comment and in an email.

David,

If anything, I think we should ask if there is no copyright violation here. I didn't ask for Arnon's permission to pdf essays he usually sells.

Neria

Yes, you are right.

Ask Arnon, if it's ok, i will send it to you. Got your mail

David,

I will not ask Arnon for any favour. Still, I do thank you for your readiness to do this geste for me :)